Right tool for the Job:Deep-Cave/Wreck Ultra-wide angle

This is my first post, so bare with me.

I hope I don't slam too many questions at once, but

I NEED YOUR HELP!

I need a topside digital system very soon, and while I

don't mind getting two systems eventually, I need to make sure

I get as many things right for the job on the first go around.

A little background: I have been diving for twenty years. Cave diving

for over ten years now, and I do a good bit of Deep Trimix Caving,

and will be doing a lot of Deep Wreck in the future. I live in Clearwater, Florida, so access to dives is pretty easy. I would like to do some more

free diving as well as spearfishing, but there's usually little time for those.

I have been doing video for years with a Sony Digital 8 System, using

American Underwater 150 Watt Dual Halogen Video Lighting,

Ultralight Arms and a custom

AUL housing that's good to 400ft +. (manual w/ little controls)

I have many hours of tapes and have been very happy with the Sony, with 0 still camera experience under water,

but -Back to the Job. I need a system for wide angle, cave and wreck

photo work. Need a housing that can make it to 200-300+ over and over.

I plan on doing 90% wide-angle shots, with some buddy/ models sometimes helping with lighting. I am ready to acquire a Halcyon Dual 50 Watt HID System, and was hoping to give it double duty as my main video

and photo light. (Issues vs. dual strobes ?? + and -) It's between $2000-2500. I still have the halogen video lights I can put on model(s).

I also use a Long Tube Gavin DPV and plan on mounting the camera on it

with quick disconnect mount kit for some dives.

I am Large Format specialist and Reseller and have access to several 13x19 High End Xerox Tektronix Color Lasers and HP/ Epson plotters and

Agfa print systems at several clients. Once edited, I would like some of my work to be printed up to even 20"x30" or in that range, mostly for personal use, but also for some scientific documentation. I know I should be in the DSLR realm, but I plan on getting the smallest system possible to do the job. If needed, I was going to start with a C-5060 or even C-5050 or Nikon 5000, and moving into a more capable system as an upgrade later. Question- Is the light and motion Tetra wide-angle system

solid or is a dome port system the only way to go? At some point, I will be attempting some ultra wide (weitwinkel)-angle wreck, as well as cave shots, your knowledge on the better low light systems is much appreciated.

I don’t mind getting a popular mfc's new system that does not have housings yet, as I can use a good dry "ramping up" period. But I will contact the housing mfc's to make sure the choice will be supported.

The Canon Pro18mp looks like a size possibility with quiet a bit of capability,

and a solid lens, but I need some hints on lenses/lights available, as I don’t mind the costs of the lenses, lights,

Accessories I will need, but must still

require the system to be smaller and more streamlined than the big DSLR

housings out there for use on the scooter, as well as small enough to take on most open water dives with and without lighting ( I know I’m in a bit of the catch -22 ) I really like the size of the Tetra Housings, and I’m not sure if I can go much bigger.

I have even thought of a standard 35mm system with wide-angle,

but need topside Digital as I have no camera now at all. Any info

on the Canon, Olympus, Nikon's will help. Anyone care to venture

which mfc. will have the best wide-angle options with and without dome port. Again this is for documentation and personal work to begin with,

so the only true need for high-end capability is being driven by the need

for LARGE PRINT CAPABILTIY. ( Geniune Fractals will be on my shopping list -FYI ).

I have been enjoying Wetpixel for many, many hours now, and have learned so much. I would like to take a minute and say THANK YOU SO MUCH for those of you that take the time to input your experiences and your thoughts for those of us interested in pursuing our passions.

Robert "Rob" Maiker

Clearwater Florida

The wide angle lens for the Tetra is the same as the Inon lens which by itself will cover ~ 100 degrees. With the dome port it becomes a 130 degrees fisheye. I don't remember the depth rating of the port.

I've made prints up to 11x16 from shots that's been cropped a little, so I think a 16x20 from an uncropped shot should be pretty good.

I just got the Nikon DX 10.5 lens for my D100. Short of getting a full frame dSLR this is probably your widest option in digital.

thanks for the info....

Any thoughts on whose prosumer 6 or 8 mpixel camera would have the largest

wide angle selection ( Canon Pro1 or Olympus 5050 & 5060 )

I would also like to look at Nikon but it seems there will be more housings for the 5060 and Pro1, since the 8700/5700 have not been as popular for divers.

I'm thinking 15 to 20mm to start with.

Also, am i going to miss anything by using large video lights instead of Strobe's.

Any thoughts on what area's the strobes would be better for. Will the Dual 50 watt HID's do the job for my wide angle need's. (It's 5000k or more ).

I'm also wondering if any mfc's are serious about making a housing for the Canon Pro 1, it may be an answer for large print, and a good wide angle selection,

while being smaller than a 300D Rebel and the C-8080. The C-8080 looks to be bigger than some of the DSLR's, doesn't it ? Is the C-5050 really a better wide angle system than the new C-5060 ? So far my choice of digital will be one of the three: Oly C-5060, C-5050, Canon Pro 1.

I'll be pretty surprised to see anything for the Pro1 or 8080 that can rival the coverage on an Inon UWL-100 w/ Dome converter. And, if it is built, a super-wide angle converter would physically have to be huge.

The Pro-1's lens extends awfully far, making me think it will vignett in a housing that supports full zoom. A manufacturer could support it with interchangable ports, but then they have to determine a market. I don't see too many people spending equal money to house a Pro-1 over a Rebel/D70.

The Oly WCON-.07 WA for the 5060, which only provides 90 deg of coverage, is nearly as large as the camera. While I haven't seen an 8080, it looks to be nearly the size of an E-20. The titan housing that fit the E-20 like a glove is about the same size as the new Ikelite slr housing.

For compact ultra wide (weitwinkel) shooting, there is nothing that compars to the Tetra housings with the wetmate WA conversion & dome port. You'll want to make sure LMI includes some heavy duty springs in the Tetra's controls so you can take it deep, though.

Nikon has a stranglehold on wa slr lenses, with the 10.5dx fisheye, 12-24mm dx, 16mm fisheye, and 17-55dx mid-range zoom.

Canon may very well catch up, but it hasn't happened yet.

Good Info Ryan.

I have heard only good things about the Light & Motion Tetra, but thought they only had a flat port. Who makes the dome port for the Tetra ?

Since you get 100 Degree coverage with thier wetmate lens, is the dome port still

needed (or much better )

If it's a Tetra I get, any thoughts on the 5060 vs the 5050?

I kknow the 5050 support is now, while the 5060 is still coming, but that might be OK.

Any thoughts on Lighting for the wide Angle shots ? (IE. Dual HID Video's vs Large Strobe's )

Rob.

Any thoughts on Lighting for the wide Angle shots ? (IE. Dual HID Video's vs Large Strobe's )

General consensus whenever this question comes up seems to be that video lights are not suitable as a replacement for strobes. There are obviously people who disagree with this point of view, but not as many as who agree. I personally prefer strobes over continuous lighting.

I have heard only good things about the Light & Motion Tetra, but thought they only had a flat port. Who makes the dome port for the Tetra ?

The dome is a conversion for the wetmate WA lens, converting its underwater 100deg fov to match its land fov, which is nearly 130.

It mounts semi-peranently (not uw removable) to the front of the Wetmate WA lens.

The 5060 will not be compatible with this lens, or the wetmate WA, so for that reason I would disqualify it.

I am a strobe person, and have yet to see someone produce results with always on lighting that come close. Deep caving would be one area I would consider always on lights, because I wouldn't want to be thinking too much about my equipment. However, results would be sacrificed.

I normally argue in favor of strobes over HID lights, but in your case the HID lights may make more sense. One of the advantage of the strobe is the freedom to blend strobe light with natural light (which you won't have). You may get good enough results with your lights and your buddy's lights combined on the subject. The advantages of this approach is that you can see lighting on the shot, and just use the camera's metering and not have to worry about exposure and TTL.

I think you should still consider a DSLR like the digital rebel. It has much higher usable ISO settings and reduce your lighting requirements. So the extra bulk of the camera may be more than offset by the reduced lighting equiptment you'll need. The cost of a DSLR system is probably not that different from a Tetra system when all the parts are added up.

Thanks Tom. And thank Ryan for the Wetmate explanation & photo.

Herb, could you expound on the higher usable ISO setting's some units have,

and how that may reduce the overall lighting for a scene...

I have a Digital Rebel and an Olympus 5050, and the picture quality of the DR at ISO 800 is comparable to or better than the 5050 at ISO 100. That's a 3 stop advantage. The 5050 has a F1.8 lens while the Sigma 15mm FE lens for the DR is F2.8. So that reduces the advantage to ~ 2 stops. That's 4x less light you'll need to get shots with comparable noise level.

Here's the rough cost breakdown for the two. Ryan probably has more detailed prices.

DR:

body $900

Sigma 15mm FE $400

housing $1600 for the Aquatica $1200 for Ikelite (I don't know if it's rated to 300ft)

dome port $500

Tetra:

5050 $600

housing $1500

Wetmate lens $800

Inon Dome $400

So you're looking at ~$3.5k in either case.

Thanks Herb,

It is something to think about (vs the Rebel 300D )

And i plan on having at least one strobe for flexibility eventually.

When mounting the system to the scooter, i can pull the ultralight arms

and light head down so they are no higher than the housing, and run the

HID's all or part of the way depending on which battery pack and the dive length,

but the height of a 300D housing is always going to be more than a Tetra right ?

If I did go with the Canon 300D, what maximum print size could you forsee?

which strobe's do you like for wide angle's

I think the Aquatica is 6.5 inches. Some of the other may be a little smaller. http://digideep.com has a list of housing with specs. Have a look there.