What DSLR to get????

Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum

I am shooting for some time now with a oly 5050 with the Inon D 180 strobe (i really love this strobe) but i would like to move on to DSLR

While i am a simple Dutch student, i have got to buil up my equipment one step at a time

First i will go looking for the camera. I really like the following models:

- Canon Eos 10D

- Nikon D100

- Nikon D70

-Fuji S2 pro

Which one is the best for underwater photography, and what are the advantages and disadvantages of each model

It's very important to me that i can use the Inon z220 (i will get this strobe in the near future) not only in manual mode but also automatic

Thanx for any help

Ser-G

Hi Ser-G:

Here is my highly biased opinion (Everyone thinks that the camera they chose is the best, right?)

The only camera listed above that can use all of the functions of the Z220 is the Fuji S2pro.

I recently bought a new S2pro on Ebay for $1,500, so it's competitive in price - BUT it is the most expensive camera in the list.

I hope to hear some other viewpoints in this thread. There have been a lot of "which is best" threads here at Wetpixel, so I encourage you to do a search in this forum.

All of the cameras above have pretty much the same image quality - they are all excellent.

Cheers

James

Having just gone through the same process, here are a few things things that led me to my decision...

1. Do you care which lense system you commit too? Personally, I know more about the Nikon F-mount lenses than the Canon lenses. And there are a few specific lenses that I really like the results out of (once I have the cash to get them!). So for me, that discounted the 10D or the 300D.

2. Body size/shape. Having narrowed it down to F-mount bodies, I was originally looking at the S2 by comparison to the D100. Couldn't actually tell you for sure why, except that I seemed to like a higher percentage of shots that I've seen from the S2. However, I really did not like the feel of the body. It seemed too bulky, and I couldn't get used to the LCD where it is. Topside use is just as important to me, so how it felt in my hands mattered.

3. That basically left me at the D100. This was end of last year when the rumors started about the then unknown D70. Decided to wait until it was announced, liked what I heard and preordered one.

www.dpreview.com has a pretty good chart with the D100, D70 and 300D side by side to compare features. You can also find in depth reviews of each model you mentioned (except the D70, review isn't up yet).

As James points out only the S2Pro will work in TTL with the Z220. If you want TTL with the D100 you will need to house a SB80DX (I have and am very happy with the result).

I don't know anything about Canon cameras; I've only ever used Nikon.

I have both the D70 and the D100 (which I use underwater).

Although I haven't had long the D70 long it is a lot easier to use. For example rather than having to turn the main dial to select things to change (eg ISO etc) the buttons on the back of the camera have dual functions depending on whether the Menu is on view or not. It's just quicker and easier to use in that respect.

Here's the Dpreview chart

http://www.digitalreview.ca/cams/NikonD70_page5.shtml

I'd buy the D70.

Thanx everyone for their quick reaction

i asked this question on a Dutch forum and nobody replied, so thumbs up for this forum and their users

The s2 pro is really a problem back here in Holland it's very low on stock and thus very expensive.

What are the exact differences between the Nikon d100 and the Nikon d70

I reaally like the d70 because it handles very good and it has a reasonable pricing

What lens system is the most worth for it's money, this can also be of great value while chossing a camera: Canon or Nikon

Greetz

Serge

There are two types of UW photographers. Those that have flooded a camera and those that will. I would therefore buy the cheapest camera that will do what you want it to. As a new camera I would consider a digital Rebel or the D70 depending upon which lenses suit you. You might also look at used cameras of the current generation. Considering how poorly salt water and digital cameras get along If you could get two used bodies for the price of one new one it would be worth a thought.

There are two types of UW photographers. Those that have flooded a camera and those that will. I would therefore buy the cheapest camera that will do what you want it to. As a new camera I would consider a digital Rebel  or the D70 depending upon which lenses suit you. You might also look at used cameras of the current generation. Considering how poorly salt water and digital cameras get along If you could get two used bodies for the price of one new one it would be worth a thought.

If this is important to you and you believe you will be flooding cameras, I suggest you get what you want, reconsider your choice of housings, and carry insurance. I've never flooded a camera and don't plan to. Accidents happen but not all the time.

Not to be disrespectful at all, but in my opinion choosing a digital camera system based on which underwater strobe it can fire is absolutely nuts. If you were only going to use the camera underwater i.e. you are a professional UW photographer then it still is nuts but not absolutely nuts. First figure out what kinds of photos you want to take. Borrow or rent a 10D and a D100 (roughly comparable) or a digital rebel and D70 (also roughly comparable). Shoot some pictures and see which ones you like the best. See if you can find someone with an S2 and look at those photos. Then add up all the stuff you need and (cameras, lenses, battery chargers, compact flash, computer bits and pieces, software, housings, strobes, arms, a case to put it in) and then see what you can afford. I shoot lots of macro stuff on land. Took a class with a bunch of guys using D100s and 10Ds. The quality of the Canon stuff was (to my eyes) a little better. That made my decision. In general doing stuff with TTL and digital underwater isn't quite there yet.

By the way, pretty much whatever you pick will allow you to get great pics, look around here at people's galleries, great stuff from all sorts of cameras, including lots of P&S. Have fun.

Not to be disrespectful at all, but in my opinion choosing a digital camera system based on which underwater strobe it can fire is absolutely nuts.

I don't agree with this at all. DSLR systems underwater are very expensive (as I'm finding out) and strobe performance is one of the biggest factors influencing your pictures underwater. Because it is more expensive to house an underwater camera--more expensive than the camera itself in most cases--anyone persiong this option would naturally put pretty heavy weight on underwater performance. This is true even for the serious ameteur.

I agree that given TTL performance and lens options available the S2pro is probably the best DSLR for underwater. Frankly, I knew I could never afford this camera so I bumped it off my list of considerations. There is more to consider for an underwater system than TTL:

1) cost. I went with the D70 because with the kit lens and less expensive housing it will probably be about $1000 less than the low price S2 configuration. This includes:

Camera body: Fuji $1500 (ebay good deal) D70 $1000 delta $500

Basic Lens: Fuji Sigma 17-35 ~$400 D70 kit lens $300 in kit delta $100

Don't mention nikon 17-35mm/17-55mm $1600 wow!

Housing: Ikelite S2pro $1500 Ikelite D70 $1200 delta $300

delta $900 (this is with buying the body on ebay, list price is much more)

2) The s2pro shoots huge RAW files. I can take more pictures with the D70. Or put it this way, my minimum size 2-dive card is cheaper with the D70.

3) The ikelite s2pro housing is huge. The d70 is more travel friendly. Plus the camera itself is lighter.

4) battery performance. The s2pro uses 2 sets of consumable batteries. I suppose that you can get rechargeble AAs but the CR2? Nikon uses one simple rechargable that seems to last forever. Way more than any 4-dive day. My experience was ~2-300 pictures with review and internal flash and lots of playing with menus topside.

5) speed. The D70 is faster than the s2pro

6) TTL. The s2pro has an advantage now. But I'm hanging my hat that Ike will crack ittl and provide a retrofit kit. I hope. But manual isn't bad and I wouldn't use older, non-digital strobes anyway. I love the recycle time on my DS125.

We'll have to see about photographic performance once someone gets a D70 underwater. So far the S2pro is a proven champ.

So, the Fuji is a great camera. If I could afford one I probably would have it instead. Then again I'd rather have a Canon 1ds too. But I think there are some good advantages to consider on the D70 too.

bvanant said:

In general doing stuff with TTL and digital underwater isn't quite there yet.

Have you tried it? I would say that with the S2 at least, it IS there now.

My post wasn't implying that strobes are the most important thing - it's just what the poster asked about. Not only should you look at cameras, you should also look at housings and lenses. With some DSLR's the lenses can cost more than the camera body. You will be interacting with the HOUSING underwater, not just the camera.

If you like to shoot macro, then I feel that the Nikon lens line is better. I'm sure some will disagree. Wide angle? Nikon has a true wideangle zoom made for their digital cameras and it is excellent. If TTL is important to you, you can get that too with the Nikon F-mount Fuji S2pro.

This is just my opinion though - to each his own.

Whatever you do, get flood insurance. You can cover your whole setup for about $130 a year.

Cheers

James

Quote: If this is important to you and you believe you will be flooding cameras, I suggest you get what you want, reconsider your choice of housings, and carry insurance. I've never flooded a camera and don't plan to. Accidents happen but not all the time.

Thanks, I hadn't had a really good laugh today. I don't care how careful you are or how good your equipment is. Something will happen someday. Insurance is always an excellent idea. And always a backup if the trip is expensive.

My point remains. Any camera going UW is going into a high risk environment. I would always take down the least expensive camera that will do the job I want it to do. That may not be the cheapest as that choice may not do everything I need and therefore in the long run be more expensive.

Oh, and I forgot to add that you will be tremendously happy with ANY of those cameras in the list. The first time I took a DSLR underwater, I was literally bubbling with joy.

Cheers

James

Thanx for the reactions

today I went to the shop to look at the camera's

First the Fuji S2 pro is of the list, it's just too expensive

at the shop i first asked for the nikon d100 & d70

the first huge advantage of the d70 is the pricing with the kit lens (18-70 dx) second the handling of this camera is very good, it's steady in my hand and it feels light, the d100 is much more bulkier

Also the camera is very user friendly and WOW!!! it is fast (compared to my good old oly 5050)

next I looked at the specs of both the camera's, not much difference!!

okay the d70 wins

I also looked at the Canon eos 10d, but it's way out of my league

TOO EXPENSIVE!!!

So next few months i will be saving for the d70!!!

I'll wait and see what housings will be available in the next months

Next question:

here in Holland the visibility is not very good 2-5 meters at a maximum

So what lens would you advise me to use for macro photography here in holland

Greetz

Serge

60mm Micro

60mm Micro

Maybe the wrong thread to ask this, but why do people recommend the 60mm over the 105mm? Everything I've heard is because the 60 has a closer working distance, but it's only by 3.25 inches. Does that difference really make that big a difference? I've been looking at both of these and honestly, I've been leaning towards the 105 because of the greater working distance (for topside reasons).

I have both. I almost always use the 60. You can shoot larger subjects as it is a wider lens. They have the same 1:1 magnification. The 105 is better for small skittish subjects due to it's longer working distance; but you might need a stronger strobe. In surge or poor visibility conditions I find it is easier to focus and use the 60. I usually find I need to use manual focus with the 105.

Maybe the wrong thread to ask this, but why do people recommend the 60mm over the 105mm?

Versatility and focus lock. Along with the FOV crop and macro capability, it can still get larger than macro creatures, e.g. octopus, large crab. It also finds its focus easier in low light. It also makes a good top side portrait lens.

I use the 60mm on night dives when you never know what scary things might be lurking out there. But I generally use the 105mm when I'm macro hunting.

Everything I've heard is because the 60 has a closer working distance, but it's only by 3.25 inches. Does that difference really make that big a difference?

Well, I'm not sure I can answer as to whether 3.25" makes a difference or not. Personally, I'd like to think not.

I use the 105mm on the D100 more than any other lens. Plus I stick a 3T or 4T close up lens on it. When I shoot macro, I really try to shoot macro. I find the close up lens easier to work with than a 2x TC. I've tried the 2x and close up together, but I just started laughing at the absurdity of it.

Just a comment. The S2Pro is so closely based on the Nikon F80 that by making an appropriate spacer block, the F80 will fit in the S2Pro housing. This may or may not be of interest, but it does at least provide a relatively cheap back-up camera should the S2 have any problems. I've been using an S2/Seacam with 12~24, 24~85 and 60 lenses for a few months. All give good results and ttl is fine on macro (hardly notice the change to digital).

James: I unfortunately am of the Canon persuasion and apart from a housed 550ex I haven't had the opportunity to shoot E-ttl underwater. My point about choosing the camera based on a strobe that you don't yet have was that at least in my case I shoot at least 10x as many pics topside as underwater so choosing the camera that best suits my overall photography was most important to me. Then came the housing(s) and then the strobes and the arms and the (all the rest). I wish that I had the time/$ to shoot a larger percentage below the water but I don't and I suspect that most folks buying housings don't either. Anyway as you suggest, whatever you get you will be pretty happy.

BVA

60 or 105... its a bit like looking at art work. I have a friend who swears by the 60, me personally I seldom use it , and prefer the 105. Reasons.....well, skittish macro work, and if you want to do macro in a smal place or deeper in a hole, the 60 cant get in there on 1:1. ( try fitting the strobes in the space as well, a real challenge).

I think my buddy likes it as he like some macro work, and non-macro, and the 60 is more versatile in that sense. In terms of focusing, the 60 is tons better.