Strobe positioning with fisheye - tips needed!

So, I got my FE dome port this week and took my new Panasonic 8mm/3.5 for a spin today. I had anticipated a certain learning curve to get comfortable with the FE perspective, but I hadn't anticipated the trouble with my strobes. Hotspots and uneven lighting galore! I pulled the strobes closer to the housing and even angled them inwards, but I still had problems getting something even reminiscent of even lighting

Here's one of the shots, SOOC (or, at least, before any adjustments in LR):

I managed to turn it into something that at least didn't hurt to look at:

But I don't think I like the thought of having to dodge every shot to get rid of the hotspots. There has to be something I haven't learned about positioning the strobes when using a fisheye. So, any tips or links to articles are highly appreciated!

Hey Storker!

Congrats on the lens and port.

My experience of setting strobes for FEs is to find a element in the image that can be highlighted by the strobe - and then use ambient, natural light for the rest of the image. It may well mean that you have one strobe switched on - and one off.

The strobe(s) that are switched on need to be tucked well behind the line of the domeport and, to avoid, backscatter, not lighting the water immediately in front of the lens. But watch also for the angle of the strobe at the edge of the domeport otherwise I've ended up with snowstorms at the edges of the image.

Lighting the centre of a relatively small subject (such as you have here) can be quite tricky as there is a high risk that the strobes will either enter into the photo - or, you'll get (as you have seen in image 1) strobes firing in unhelpful places. This especially the case if the domeport is around the 8"-9" size. It's really hard to get the strobes tucked in enough if you are photographing a small object and you are close to it.

Attached is an example of the point I'm trying to highlight - I think I had one strobe firing from the upper right to light the sponges, but the left one was switched off. The idea though was to highlight the corals in the foreground but make sure that the diver in the background was clear - and is light by ambient light.

Lighting for FEs is not something I found easy and there is a huge amount of trial and error. I often find I turn the strobes off and use ambient light......

Good hunting!

Thanks!

I understand I've been thinking back-a$$wards. With my 9-18 I'm used to extend the arms quite a bit to avoid backscatter, and angling the strobes somewhat inwards to hit the center of the frame. I'll try pulling the strobes close and angling them outwards.

And I've got the Nauticam 4.33", so it's not too big

I pulled the strobes closer to the housing and even angled them inwards, but I still had problems getting something even reminiscent of even lighting

 

 

This is exactly the opposite of what I would suggest doing normally. I use dual Ike 161s with diffusers and normally I would have the arms out as wide as I can with the stobes actually pointing outward. The centre of the image then, is lit by the overlapping "inside edge" of the strobes. This greatly reduces the amount of backscatter, but will still provide adequete light for the centre of your frame.

Like Tim, I really try to make it look like the strobes aren't even in play... natural light with just some fill. I shoot primarily in the great lakes where low light is the rule, and even then, my strobes are typically only set at about 1/2 power.

Also, diffusers will really help with the hotspots. If they don't make them for your strobes, I've seen them fashioned from white plastic container lids (like cream cheese) with a bunch of holes drilled into them, and then duct-taped to the strobe!

I've got two Inon Z240s which came with diffusers and warming filters, and the diffusers get off only during post-dive soak, rinse and drying

I don't use the warming filters, though. I think our green water background comes better out with a somewhat high color temp WB, usually somewhere around 5500-6000K

--

Sent from my Android phone

Typos are a feature, not a bug

The general suggestion is to use diffusers and point the strobes straight forward not at the subject. This has a drawback the fact that you get really close and you are focussing on the dome the strobes end up hitting your hands. Say that your tray is one foot the strobes will now be around 40 cm from each other. Which means the subject needs to be around 20 cm from the ideal line connecting the strobes. What you can do however is to push the strobes behind the dome in line with the focus mark of the camera. You can then get the hot spot outside the frame. You can point as last resort the strobes directly to the subject but you need to make sure they are far enough the dome and behind it. This technique has the risk of you casting your own rig shadow on the subject so you need to be careful. If you do aim the strobes at the subject you can use TTL so you only have to eliminate the hotspots. With the Inon you can set the strobes to TTL low or use the auto setting and take out a few stops if you are really close.

Lots of good info here.

I don't bother with shooting manual, Inon TTL works pretty well with my E-M5. My standard settings are aperture priority, auto ISO, ambient underexposed by one step and flash at zero compensation.

I did a quick test in my living room this morning. Although it helps quite a lot to push the strobes behind the port, closer together and angled outwards, with the type of subject I shot yesterday (close main subject on a flat bottom - or like today, the floor), it's tricky to avoid bright spots in the bottom corners of the frame. When the main subject is higher above the base, it isn't too difficult to avoid the bright spots. I'll try to experiment with positioning the strobes a little above the housing instead of having them at the same level as the port or slighly below, as I've been doing so far.

I think I'm quite happy that I didn't get a fisheye when I started shooting UW. Trying to get shots I was fairly happy with while learning to use UW techniques was challenging enough with a rectilinear WA like my 9-18. It did't exactly help that for topside shooting I've generally had better results with the tele perspective than with the WA perspective, so just developing my WA technique has been challenging enough. Now I think I'm ready to take the next step into the fisheye world

--

Sent from my Android phone

Typos are a feature, not a bug

There are two solutions depending on what you photograph:

- 2 strobes pointed slightly inward: this will create some kind of WA Snoot as it will illuminate only the center of the photo.
- 3 Strobes: the two external ones pointed outwards to cover the edges and one central to cover the middle of the photo.
This works only with clear water as the central strobe (except you position it high above illuminating downwards) will create a lot of backscatter

To illuminate with very wide lenses you need to practice to nget a even illumination or the desired effect

Chris

Here a picture of the WA Snoot effect:

Another outing with the 8mm/3.5, a two-tank dive this weekend. It's getting better, but CFWA when the subject is low on a flat bottom is still challenging. I have to get the strobes even higher above the port, and make sure they're pulled far enough behind. I was pretty bothered with a leaking mask, though, so I had somewhat limited bandwidth to allocate to the shooting...

The background is getting lighter than it did with the 9-18 for some weird reason. I've been shooting aperture priority and underexposing the ambient by 1 step and was pretty happy with that earlier. Given that the outward-angled strobes don't deliver full power to the center of the frame, I'm considering to change that setting to perhaps 2 steps underexposure of the ambient light. I'll probably try that out, we'll see how it goes.

I think what you are finding is that you have more background due to the fisheye field of view. Exposure is same but much more water and bottom are creeping in

Hey Storker

Yeah, the lighting position is working better in those 3 shots for sure. Well done.

Next move, I'd suggest, would be to get much closer in pic 1 (crab) and especially in pic 2 (urchin). This echoes Interceptor121's comment. One of the beauties of the FE is just how close you can get - concentrating on the main subject but showing it against it's habitat. Pic 2 is ideal for this. If (If!) you could have got lower than the urchin (pic2), really close and shot upwards it might work even better. Of course, you'd need to get your model to attend the TimG PADI Underwater Modelling (Elegant Leg Positioning) Specialty.

Same with the crab (pic 1), if you could get below the body of the crab and shoot upwards so that you can see water between the rock and the crabs leg. It could be quite dramatic.

Ahhh, counsels of perfection. Doncha love 'em.

FWIW I have been shooting a fisheye at ground level with a single strobe positioned at 12 o'clock for a few years. The reason for that is to use the port shade to block direct lighting of the dome's glass. Lights from strobes positioned to the side ended up striking the glass through the shade cut-out resulting in flare. Subjects are right up to the dome. There are some videos on my web site showing this set up in action for shooting salmon - located under the species listings.

Tom

Next move, I'd suggest, would be to get much closer in pic 1 (crab) and especially in pic 2 (urchin). This echoes Interceptor121's comment. One of the beauties of the FE is just how close you can get - concentrating on the main subject but showing it against it's habitat. Pic 2 is ideal for this. If (If!) you could have got lower than the urchin (pic2), really close and shot upwards it might work even better. Of course, you'd need to get your model to attend the TimG PADI Underwater Modelling (Elegant Leg Positioning) Specialty.

 

Same with the crab (pic 1), if you could get below the body of the crab and shoot upwards so that you can see water between the rock and the crabs leg. It could be quite dramatic.

 

Ahhh, counsels of perfection. Doncha love 'em.

All good points. In retrospect (ah, the allure of armchair quarterbacking. If I could shoot as well as I spot errors in existing pics, I might make a career out of UW photography!), I totally agree with most of them, except the crab-photog distance. Do you give a TimG PADI Underwater Modelling (Crustaceans Edition) Specialty? 'Cause he and I didn't agree on how close I should get.

The urchin, absolutely. I tried to get lower, but managed to silt up the scene when I went all the way down on the bottom. Besides, my model/buddy (I know that he's both my model and my diving buddy, he thinks that he's only my buddy...) had grown a bit impatient and was heading away to look for another fish to spear¹, so I didn't have time to let the silt settle. If I had, the model would've been long gone. But I gave him grief for the leg positioning, we both wondered what kind of frog kick THAT was

Anyhow, there's going to be a lot of experimenting and shooting in the near future, because that FE is about as easy to master as I expected. Particularly for someone who used to prefer the tele perspective topside.

¹ To be a little serious for a second, I think the shooting/buddy obligations balance is one of the more challenging aspects of UW photography, and probably undercommunicated to n00bs. Solo diving isn't for me, so there's always a tradeoff between spending enough time to get a good shot, and avoiding to pi$$ off your buddy so you don't have a buddy on the next dive.

 

All good points. In retrospect (ah, the allure of armchair quarterbacking. If I could shoot as well as I spot errors in existing pics, I might make a career out of UW photography!), I totally agree with most of them, except the crab-photog distance. Do you give a TimG PADI Underwater Modelling (Crustaceans Edition) Specialty? 'Cause he and I didn't agree on how close I should get.

 

The urchin, absolutely. I tried to get lower, but managed to silt up the scene when I went all the way down on the bottom. Besides, my model/buddy (I know that he's both my model and my diving buddy, he thinks that he's only my buddy...) had grown a bit impatient and was heading away to look for another fish to spear¹, so I didn't have time to let the silt settle. If I had, the model would've been long gone. But I gave him grief for the leg positioning, we both wondered what kind of frog kick THAT was

 

 

Anyhow, there's going to be a lot of experimenting and shooting in the near future, because that FE is about as easy to master as I expected. Particularly for someone who used to prefer the tele perspective topside.

 

 

¹ To be a little serious for a second, I think the shooting/buddy obligations balance is one of the more challenging aspects of UW photography, and probably undercommunicated to n00bs. Solo diving isn't for me, so there's always a tradeoff between spending enough time to get a good shot, and avoiding to pi$$ off your buddy so you don't have a buddy on the next dive.

Yes Storker , Posing Crustacea will be a module in our PADI Underwater Modelling Specialty. It comes immediately after Shrimp Feelers and You, Head-on with Damselfish and Trumpetfish Snout Close-ups. The later, we feel, has been something of a triumph.

Seriously (ha!), I agree, getting the buddy/photo balance right can be kinda tricky. It's not hard to pi** off your buddy Big Time if you spend too long on a shot. Ask my buddy - and she's also my model. And my partner. I can now sense the change in water pressure when she reaches that, "really, how many hundred ways do you want this shot..." moment. Fish are diving for cover, crustaceans are looking for holes and... I just know I will have to carry the camera back to the room on my own.

Life eh?