CP 5000 ttl in low light?

Just got Ikelite housing for CP5000 and SS200 strobe. I am having problems shooting with TTL in low light, it over exposes all photos. 1/8 setting with SS200 produces better results.

Is there some settings in the camera that can be used to reduce over exposing?

Is CP5000 using preflash? The documentation of SS200 says that it does not support preflash.

I was using epoque wide angle lens with camera set to use wide angle lens, does this require some extra settings?

Sami

Had more or less the same problem. In my case it was a bad connector for the sync-cable on the camera-side (the one you slide on top of the camera).

Still have to get a new connector, but no parts available over here, Ike is it possible that you provide me with one???

I "fixed" the connector a little. You can check what happens when you fire the flash (ttl-mode) straight into the lense. You should see a very short flash, compared to the ss-200's full dump.

If the ttl-connection is not made I think the flash should do a full dump. Also check the sync-cable if you're not sure about it.

When ttl-mode is ok, you should be able to have a decent picture (on land) with for example F5.6, 1/100 sec and a distance of about 20 cm.

Hi Sami,

The camera fires preflash but it does not "use" it. Sound confusing? It is!

I don't know why the camera fires preflash - most people think it is a software bug. You can deflect or block the preflash from the camera and you will get the exact same exposure. So that's what Ike did w/ his housing - use a flash blocker/deflector.

Sometimes the camera will overexpose extreme closeups - especially witha big strobe like the 200. Try moving your strobe back and use some Flash +/- (-1.5 or 2 works well). Go to menu -> Speedlite Options -> Variable Power Speedlite and dial in the -1.5 or -2.

That should help!

Cheers

James Wiseman

Or try to make a diffuser out of some plastic. I made 2, difference was about halve an f-stop each. Also makes the light a bit "softer", usefull when you have only one flash.

Sami's post implies that TTL is still available when the strobe is set at 1/8 power. It could be that the SS 200 has different controls than my DS125, (and it could equally well be that I'm misinterpreting Sami's intent) but as I understand it with mine, TTL is only available when the switch is set to TTL, and if I crank down the power to 1/2, 1/4 etc TTL control is no longer in effect and I have to deal with the exposure myself.

I also had zero joy with using my CP50000 in fully auto mode. Naiively I hoped that I'd be able to leave the camera in P mode, leave the strobe on TTL, and everything would be cool. No such luck, and I suspect that has been many people's experience. My pics, like Sami's, were horribly overexposed. I didn't try James' suggestion of varying the speedlight power in the camera (as I figured, for what ever twisted reason, that it wouldn't have affected the external strobe) but I did try using the regular exposure compensation -- even maxed down at -2 the shots were still overexposed. James, will setting the speedlight power in that way effectively crank down the strobe output like setting the strobe to 1/2 or 1/4 yet still allowing TTL monitoring of the exposure? Will it work with us weirdos that use the TTL slave rather than a connector?

Too many questions, but here's another I haven't found a decent answer to elsewhere. TTL control of the flash on the CP5000 isn't really TTL, right? I used to do a lot of above-water nature photography, but haven't for some years so my concepts may be out of date, but as I understand it in an SLR TTL exposure there is usually a detector that measures light reflecting back from the film plane that judges when the flash has put out enough light. In the CP5000 this is "faked" by having the sensor beside the grip measure light from the speedlight that is reflected back from the subject. So, this light coming back from the subject will be from the entire subject area, and regardless of how I set the camera metering (average, spot, etc) it cannot know where the light that hits the sensor came from, so can't expose for the part of the frame I intended? If anyone has a good URL or source of other info on this I'd appreciate a pointer.

With CP 5000 land use, there has been a lot of discussion about overexposed flash pics, mostly because the flash sensor is easily blocked by the hand holding the camera and pressing the shutter. If TTL overexposure is a common thing in a housing, is it possible refractive index losses through the housing is fouling up TTL monitoring?

My best luck with TTL, biased by a lot of what I read here, was to use aperture priority, center weight or spot metering, and to set the camera to fill-in flash. I'm not sure why fill-in gave me better results--or even if it really did (kinda hard to take good notes and I'm not finding all the information I expected to in the exif info that photoshop displays - some Q's about that in the image processing forum) - but if my perception is right can anyone explain why this should be so?

Wish I had my strobe back and lived closer to the ocean :-)

Bob.

Hi Bob, you weirdo...

I think I'm going to have to give in and write an article about using the Coolpix 5000. IMO, it is the cream of the crop of the consumer digicams and a lot of people are buying it. If only my commission check from Nikon would show up...I've been looking in my mailbox every day but nothing!!!!

I am just kidding of course.

Boy, lots of questions. I'll try to answer them in an orderly fashion w/ a quote:

Sami's post implies that TTL is still available when the strobe is set at 1/8 power. It could be that the SS 200 has different controls than my DS125, (and it could equally well be that I'm misinterpreting Sami's intent) but as I understand it with mine, TTL is only available when the switch is set to TTL, and if I crank down the power to 1/2, 1/4 etc TTL control is no longer in effect and I have to deal with the exposure myself.

You got it bob. Manual is manual. I think the strobe designers do it this way. Ike please correct me if I'm wrong. When you shoot in 1/2 power, you just reduced the f-stop by 1 stops (by definition). When you shoot in 1/4 the power goes down 2 stops...

There is no "combination" of manual and TTL but there is something close: Flash +/- This let's you adjust the TTL flash by up to 2 stops on the Coolpix 5000.

I also had zero joy with using my CP50000 in fully auto mode. Naiively I hoped that I'd be able to leave the camera in P mode, leave the strobe on TTL, and everything would be cool. No such luck, and I suspect that has been many people's experience. My pics, like Sami's, were horribly overexposed. I didn't try James' suggestion of varying the speedlight power in the camera (as I figured, for what ever twisted reason, that it wouldn't have affected the external strobe) but I did try using the regular exposure compensation -- even maxed down at -2 the shots were still overexposed. James, will setting the speedlight power in that way effectively crank down the strobe output like setting the strobe to 1/2 or 1/4 yet still allowing TTL monitoring of the exposure? Will it work with us weirdos that use the TTL slave rather than a connector?

Yep, P mode isn't going to cut it. The way the camera designers think, mostly this camera is going to be used by moms taking pictures at the soccer game, or graduation or something like that. So the P mode goes for the highest shutter speed and lowest F-stop (ie biggest opening in the lens). When you fire off a flash (and when you use the slave sensor on your DS125, the camera doesn't even 'know' that you have a flash attached!!!!) at f2.8, you totally blow away your CCD. The Flash +/- isn't going to fix this. You need to learn to use your camera in Manual(M) or Aperture priority(A) mode. Then shoot in TTL and use the Flash +/- at -1.5 or -2

Too many questions, but here's another I haven't found a decent answer to elsewhere. TTL control of the flash on the CP5000 isn't really TTL, right? I used to do a lot of above-water nature photography, but haven't for some years so my concepts may be out of date, but as I understand it in an SLR TTL exposure there is usually a detector that measures light reflecting back from the film plane that judges when the flash has put out enough light. In the CP5000 this is "faked" by having the sensor beside the grip measure light from the speedlight that is reflected back from the subject. So, this light coming back from the subject will be from the entire subject area, and regardless of how I set the camera metering (average, spot, etc) it cannot know where the light that hits the sensor came from, so can't expose for the part of the frame I intended? If anyone has a good URL or source of other info on this I'd appreciate a pointer.

You're absolutely right on this one. But believe it or not (I'm not sure if I believe it) TTL doesn't even stand for "through the lens" it stands for something like thyristor thyristor logic or something like that. In any case, the CP5000 uses an external sensor (kinda like the Ike sensor, gasp!!!) to measure the light coming back to the camera. So yes, it's not measuring the reflection off the "film plane." That doesn't mean it doesn't work though - I tend to think of it as a TTL sensor that sees the whole frame.

With CP 5000 land use, there has been a lot of discussion about overexposed flash pics, mostly because the flash sensor is easily blocked by the hand holding the camera and pressing the shutter. If TTL overexposure is a common thing in a housing, is it possible refractive index losses through the housing is fouling up TTL monitoring?

This could well be the reason that most people use Flash -2.0 or so with these cameras, eh?

My best luck with TTL, biased by a lot of what I read here, was to use aperture priority, center weight or spot metering, and to set the camera to fill-in flash. I'm not sure why fill-in gave me better results--or even if it really did (kinda hard to take good notes and I'm not finding all the information I expected to in the exif info that photoshop displays - some Q's about that in the image processing forum) - but if my perception is right can anyone explain why this should be so?

Not sure. I never used fill-in flash. My guess is that fill in flash is just regular TTL flash with like -2 stops of compensation. That is what you do when you shoot "fill flash" with an SLR.

In any case, I really hope this helps you. I took about 1/2 hr of my day to write it...

Cheers

James

Thanks, again, James.

So much to learn; I used to have land photography pretty much wired with my trusty OM-1, but all this hi-tech--and water to boot--is pretty challenging. Lotsa help from here is proving invaluable though.

Now, where did I put those flash cubes?

B.

Thanks for your replys.

I tested TTL the way Edwin suggested and it is working.

Dialling down speedlight by 2 solved over exposing problem, at least on land. I'll see how it works underwater on Saturday.

Few more questions:

1. What white-balance setting are you using? Auto, manual or speedlight? I am using the camera mostly in Finnish waters where the water color is yellow-greenish. Last weekend I tried setting white balance manually from my buddys white tank, but it produced too much red/blue in the photos.

2. Is there any advantage using wide angle setup in the camera while using external wide angle lens?

Sami

I made the extra function key on top changing the wb, so you can easily try different settings uw. I'm using "flash" setting in our dutch murky waters.

If the colours are not totally wrong, you can quite easy adjust them in photoshop or the program you probably got with your cp5000.

I use Auto white balance, or Speedlite.

Cheers

James

when using auto my pictures were rather green/yellow. I think it depends on the water you dive in. This will need some experiments.

Back from my dive trip to the largest wreck in finnish waters.

Some of the shots that I took can be viewed at

http://www.snuuba.com/html/2002/dive_pictures/dive483.html

Still had problems with overexposing eventhough I had speedlight and exposure both dialled down by 2.

Manual white balance didn't work at all, all the photos were too red/blue. Speedlight setting worked better.

There are several long message threads on how to set the 5000 to get good auto flash. They will give you all the info you need. I've got many good macro shots with the camera. I've got my function button set to WB, also. Usually use auto but will check them all (very easy)

Quick and dirty for extreme closeup macro shots: Manual or Aperature, F8, 500 sec shutter. Ext. speedlight -2.0, Back off the strobe 1 to 2 ft from your subject. Beyond very close macro you can pretty much shoot normaly.