1Ds / 1D Mk II + 550ex & Inon Z-220 strobe help

Ok, I know echeng can probably shed some light on this (pun intended).

I just got my Subal CD1 Dual and 550 strobecase for UW use of a TTL land strobe. My second strobe is a Inon Z-220.

I haven't even gotten wet yet, and I'm having some unintended effects.

1: Out of the box, focus light doesn't work on the Inon -- I think I need a 5-pin Nikonos bulkhead (instead of 3-pin) and a circuit board modification (100kOhm resistor between SP and Ready on the Nik pinout). But will that kill my TTL on the 550? Or kill the 550 altogether? Which pins are those on the Subal board anyway?

2: Since I'll be running TTL on the left and slave on the right, how do I get my exposure to work? Strangely, if I put the 550 on E-TTL and the Inon on Optically triggered TTL, the Inon goes full blast (albeit close to correct exposure) and I get very little light from the 550.

3: Manual control is weird. At air distances over 5 feet, things behave as I would expect. At macro distances, with the Inon (corded) set to -5 minimum power and the 550 set to E-TTL, I get bleached overexposed crap. With the Inon (optical slave) set to TTL and the 550 set to E-TTL, I get underexposed crap. What the heck am I doing wrong?

Any suggestions or thoughts in general about combining a manual and TTL strobe in a single exposure would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks all!

-Erik Moon

Canon 1Ds/1DII - Subal CD1 Dual - Subal + Canon 550ex - Inon Z-220

Hi Erik,

I got the same behaviour with E-TTL Canon flash + Inon Z220.

So far my "guess" for the problems:

2 (550EX E-TTL mode, Z220 optical TTL): The Z220 quenches simultaneous to the 550EX’s preflash, which is relatively weak. But the Z220 optical triggered preflash is for some reason to bright (might have something to do with the E-TTL modulated preflash, don’t know). The camera’s metering system receives to much light and calculates a wrong (to weak) mainflash output as the system assumes that the preflash amount of light was done by the short 550EX preflash only.

Another item is why the Z220 quenches more light with the mainflash as the optical TTL should get close to the mainflash’s lightning duration. Maybe the Z220 just gives more light within the same duration and/or the optical triggering cannot shut the flash fast enough when the mainflash is very short.

3 (corded Z220 manual -5): I understand that the corded Z220 only fires the mainflash (no preflash). 550EX preflash is fired. Camera calculates the correct exposure but for the 550EX being the only flash (as it was with the preflash). With the mainflash the Z220’s light output comes on top. With -5 and greater distance can be OK. For Macro it’s to much.

This is just my guess how things mix up here.

Someone else reported to me the same results with a Sea&Sea flash set to optical TTL.

I found that these combinations do not work properly with the new preflash TTL systems. The camera metering systems get mixed up. They do not meter during exposure (like film-TTL or the Fuji S2Pro) and cannot respond to the actual lighting situation during exposure. By the way it works without these problems with my housed 430EZ (non-E-TTL, just TTL, no preflash) and film EOS.

But this is just my thought and experience as I did not manage to get proper results. If someone knows or experienced if such a setup works successfully I would also be thankful to know.

Julian

Hi Eric, good to "see" you again.

Echeng is in the Solomons until like next month, so don't expect a response for a while.

I don't understand how E-TTL works, so I can't help.

Cheers

James

James,

I guess it could be the same thing with D-TTL/i-TTL. The preflash problem with optical "TTL"-triggering shouldn't be to different. But I don't know. Do you know how this behaves with Nikon? Have you tried? Would be interesting to know.

Julian

From my understanding of eTTL, there are multiple pre-flashes, not just a single pre-flash then the main flash. If so, the Inon might not be able to replicate as many flashes as the 550ex, OR it might simply be doing a "full" dump on the preflash and confusing the eTTL system (effectively causing it to underexpose because it sees more light than there really is).

I'm not sure mixing and matching a 550 and an amphibious strobe will work out well, you might need to use either 2 550's or 2 Inons. That being said I don't have any experience trying to house a land strobe.

Hi James -- good to "see" you again. Everyone else -- thanks for your thoughts. Any additional ideas still welcome...

Yes, in retrospect, this may not be an entirely well-thought configuration. I was confident that I could get the Inon to work with the optical slave... I would if I could, but I don't think it is possible to run 2 E-TTL strobes (550ex or similar) corded. I believe you could use a RF slave 550ex WIRELESS -- but have no idea how well that would work underwater in the Subal housing. Not to mention I didn't buy another one & they are HUGE...

Does anyone know if there is a way to shoot the 1D & 550 in old-style TTL?

I may simply resort to using only the 550ex for Macro and use both only for wide in a weird TTL + Manual combo. I hate to say it, but maybe I need to get another Inon for wide shots? Can I even connect an Inon to an S-6 bulkhead?

I'm still scratching my head on this one...

-Erik

The basic problem with the setup you're trying to construct is that the optical slave has to turn on and off with the wired TTL strobe to even have a chance of doing something reasonable. When used as a slave strobe, the Inon Z220 just dumps the set charge. It dose not follow the master strobe when it turns off.

If I understand the way you have it set up, the TTL preflash triggers the Z220, the camera reads the return of both and use that exposure to calculate the exposing flash. There's no chance this can work.

You may also find that the 550 does not have enough power for macro. I've had to crank my Z220 to full on some shots for dark subjects at F/22.

Hmm. I know you can do this with a YS90DX or an Ike strobe, because you can set them to ignore the preflash(es) and only fire on the main flash. Of course, you would have to set the slave manually to a relatively low power setting, so that it doesn't overwhelm the Canon flashgun. Also keep in mind that he Canon camera will have no idea that two flashes will go off when the shutter is open, so it would be easy to overexpose the foreground if you aren't careful. I would try to use the slave for fill only.

On the other hand, isn't there a way to set up the Inon so that it ignores the preflash? We should ask Mark Rupert about this.

Cheers

James

On the other hand, isn't there a way to set up the Inon so that it ignores the preflash?  We should ask Mark Rupert about this.

No. Only D-180. But it would not help.

I have emailed Inon Japan some time ago concearning optical TTL slave mode. If someone is interested in the response:

It is interesting to have your "Field Test" result.

With TTL for Z-220, it start flashing upon receipt of trigger signal from camera internal strobe.

Then Z-220 stop flashing upon receipt of stop signal from camera internal strobe.

The timing of stop signal depending on various factors such as ambient light condition, aperture setting,

shutter speed setting and ISO sensitivity of film/image sensor etc.

We assume that when you took the photo of Z-220 in its TTL mode, 10D calculate the light amount

less than the light amount of "Manual Power output of -5".

Please note that TTL mode of Z-220 does not support digital camera system.

So it is highly likely to have inadequate exposure on a image in the camera system.

Thank you again for your informative data.

Should you require any further information, please contact with our distributor in your region

at http://www.multimedia-online.ch/ or us.

I think there is no way of earning proper results with "optical TTL"

Julian

On the other hand, isn't there a way to set up the Inon so that it ignores the preflash?  We should ask Mark Rupert about this.

 

Cheers

James

The Z220 instructions for dealing with a preflash is to set the output to less than or equal to 1/2 power so the flash has enough power to fire twice.

Ok, your ideas are proving helpful.

This seems to work relatively well:

- Camera set to M (1/200 @ any f stop)

- Inon set to -3 to -5

- 550ex set to E-TTL

This seems to get acceptable exposures at any f stop (have to fiddle with the Inon output), but I'm artificially limiting my strobe output to ensure the Inon will fire for both pre-flash and flash.

I haven't tried manual power on the 550 yet -- seems a little pointless. I could have saved $$$ by just getting 2 Inons...

I'll fiddle with it some more and report back with in-water results.

Any additional ideas anyone?