Help. 2 x DS51 or 1 x DS160?

Hi,

I'm moving into underwater portraits and have done a few shoots using available light but it's just not getting the results I'm after. I need to bump the ISO up too high and am losing detail and colour.

So I'm assuming that a strobe or two is going to help me with this.

My quandary is that I only have funds for either 1xDS160 or 2xDS51s. I shoot a Sony A7ii in an Ikelite housing using the 16-35mm f4 and the dome port.

As I'm mostly just shooting a model in front of me would I be able to get away with 2xDS51s, I'm thinking I'll have more control over the light here but my biggest concerns are that they aren't wide enough and the recycle time will drive me nuts.

So would 1xDS160 be sufficient to start on then in 6 months or so buy a partner for it?...

This is what I've been shooting so far http://graemetek.com/aqua-portraits-gallery

Thanks in advance for any help

Awesome work Graeme. You've made great use of natural light already and maintaining that 'look' might only want a gentle touch of strobe fill in certain instances. If you're looking to use strobes as key lights that changes things up a lot.

Personally if I were in your shoes I wouldn't buy new Ikelite strobes. I'd look for a pair of used Inon z240s. With the new z330 and a couple other new strobes recently on the market, there should be some of these available at reasonable cost.

I wouldn't really consider the DS51 up to par, but I've never used one. The DS161 does produce nice warm light but its really bulky and heavy. The stiff low profile side dials are a PITA to use - hard to adjust without moving the strobe out of position. It also lacks an optical slave sensor common to most other strobes today, so your only option is electrical sync. I also wouldn't count on using TTL in your scenario if you're considering it. On the plus side it does have a slightly higher quality of light with its round flash tube.

Thank you Chris, for the info and the compliment

I've looked at the Inon's but was thinking that the Ikelites would be easier as it's all from the same manufacturer. But that's great info regarding weight, dials and optical slave. I do all my photography free diving so weight and drag is a big consideration. Also for the pool shoots I'd like the option of triggering a strobe optically if I want it placed further away.

Mostly I like the images I'm getting I just want to get more detail and not have to rely on the ISO as it's killing me in post. I'll start keeping an eye out for some Inons.

Cheers

Graeme

Sorry meant to also ask, is it worth holding out for the Type 4 Inons over the older versions?

Hey Graeme

Over the years I've had the Inon Z220 and the Z240 v2 and v4. Not really sure I have ever been able too see any difference but if I remember correctly, the v4 is more compatible with TTL converters. Not an issue for you I guess.

Tim

Ikelite ds 51s are great macro strobes. Same cool light temperature as the inons. The larger Ikelite's have a warmer light that will help in blue water and feature a circular tube. They are large indeed.

I have made 3D print knob extensions for both ds51 and ds125/160/161.

Nice Gallery, seems like an original concept. I shoot with two INONs and they are quite light underwater and you can always add float arms to get them neutrally buoyant or close to it. I generally shoot with 1 1/2 stops under full power with ISO400 and f8 for subjects about 0.5 m away more or less and I seldom adjust power unless I'm getting in quite close or a larger distant subject appears.

On whether to get Type 2 or 4 it looks like you are based in Australia and may have to take what you can get, the type 4s have a better chance of being newer of course. You'll need a fibre optic port/holder to stick on your housing and may have to deal with light from the internal flash used to trigger the strobes causing ghosting. INON sell a film which it seems blocks visible light and transits infra red which you can stick on the internal flash to deal with the ghosting: http://www.inon.jp/technicalguide/clearphoto.html

Hi,
your gallery is great!
If it is allowed, just one point:
The frame rate in the ocean section is a bit to fast.
It switches a bit before the complete picture is on the screen.
I know that my internet connection is not fibre, but give us a chance to watch your pics ;-))

Regards,
Wolfgang

Thanks for all the replies.

Wolfgang, always open to suggestions thanks. I had turned off the transition on the portrait gallery but forgot to on the Ocean one, fixed.

ChrisRoss, thanks for the info. Do you get a faster recycle time shooting under full power like that? The guides say the full dump recycle time and that it's 'faster' when not on full power but not how much quicker. The Sony A7 ii doesn't have a built in flash but I believe I can get an electronic Ikelite to INON cable??

Cerianthus, I like the idea of the printed dials but without seeing the different strobes in my hands I'm thinking the INONs might be the forward based on size and weight for me...I hope I'm not going to want TTL down the line

Tim, having owned different versions do they all have optical triggering in case I want to move them away to a fixed position i.e. behind a subject and still fire it?

Thanks again for all the help

 

 

Tim, having owned different versions do they all have optical triggering in case I want to move them away to a fixed position i.e. behind a subject and still fire it?

 

 

They all have optical triggers indeed, Graeme although I'm not sure to what degree they'd operate if line of sight is blocked. I believe they are pretty sensitive though. I guess much would depend on distance and water clarity.

I'm not sure how best to explain it, I shoot single frames just squeezing the trigger often in quick succession and never found I've been waiting. What settings are you using? Higher ISO would have them firing faster as would more open aperture. You would have to work out how to connect to the INONs, believe there is a flash trigger available or as you say you can probably buy a sync cord as the Z-240 has a sync cord port.

Hi,

 

I'm moving into underwater portraits and have done a few shoots using available light but it's just not getting the results I'm after. I need to bump the ISO up too high and am losing detail and colour.

 

So I'm assuming that a strobe or two is going to help me with this.

 

My quandary is that I only have funds for either 1xDS160 or 2xDS51s. I shoot a Sony A7ii in an Ikelite housing using the 16-35mm f4 and the dome port.

 

As I'm mostly just shooting a model in front of me would I be able to get away with 2xDS51s, I'm thinking I'll have more control over the light here but my biggest concerns are that they aren't wide enough and the recycle time will drive me nuts.

 

So would 1xDS160 be sufficient to start on then in 6 months or so buy a partner for it?...

 

This is what I've been shooting so far http://graemetek.com/aqua-portraits-gallery

 

Thanks in advance for any help

Lots of good suggestions here for you in this thread from several folks.

The DS51 is nice and small, but it's a fairly low powered strobe. The DS160 or 161 are much higher power, but they are big.

I have a DS51 for my Canon G16 rig (Ikelite TTL housing). I use a SOLA 1200 as focus/video light. More recently I got a housing for my Canon 7D (used) and it came with two DS125's. They are quite powerful - for macro I have to keep the diffusers on, but compared to the DS51 they are HUGE.

Now I just got a pair of used Inon Z240 strobes. I got them so I could try optical TTL, plus I converted the 7D housing from manual wire to pure optical. You can use an Ikelite optical trigger to get optical sync with an Ike strobe, but it's more stuff. The Inons will do wired sync as well as optical, and they will do optical TTL.

What did surprise me is just how compact and light the Z240's are compare to the DS125s. WOW. Really nice size and much less bulk. Plus, unlike the Ike big strobes (125, 160, 161) they take 4xAA eneloops which is a lot less mass and easy to charge/replace.

I think I'm gonna love these Z240s.

As others have stated, right now a lot of folks are selling off Z240s to buy some new Z330s as the Z240 is discontinued. There are some really great deals to be had on Z240s right now. That's how I got mine. :-)

Thanks again everyone.

I think I'm sold on the z240's. It seems I can get a dual electronic cable Ikelite to INON so I think I'll go down that route and if I need a strobe further away maybe get a 15' extension...are there any issues with these?

I'm used to shooting manually on land so I'll just need to adjust to that underwater and as I'm normally in a controlled environment I'm hoping it should be a bit easier.

I've just seen a comparison today on the size difference of z240's and d160... the d160 is almost the size of 2 x z240's!!! and I have a tonne of Eneloop's from when I was shooting weddings with off camera speed lights.

You could always try out and see if it will trigger optically from the wired strobes, the sensor is quite sensitive in the INONs before playing with cables.