105 mm macro lens in poor vis? (Crop sensor)

I have a Nikon D500 (crop sensor). I usually use a 60 mm macro lens but considering getting the 105 mm. I know it has a longer focal length and needs a strong focus light. My local area is the rather murky Bay of Fundy. Curious to see what people's experience is using this lens in green water.

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My experience in Sydney's sometimes murky waters is the opposite is true unless you have some very small subjects.  For a given subject and framing you will have less water between your camera and subject with the 60mm lens.  Of course it depends on the subject and how close it allows you to get.  Nudis for example you can generally get very close to.

Hi Claire

I started using the Nikkor 105mm and the 60mm with the D300, then just the 105mm with a D800 - and now just the 105mm with the D500.

Not in green water, admittedly, but the 105mm is now the only macro lens I use even with the crop sensor. I like the reach it gives and it is pin sharp. I've got a port that allows manual focussing and I do find I need to use that occasionally in murky water. I have a focus light but very rarely use that unless it's getting towards dusk.

I've used the 105mm in the Red Sea (clear water of course), Bonaire (can be murky), Anilao and Puerta Galera (turbid often), Lembeh (mucky) and now in St Martin. I don't think I'll go back to a 60mm - and don't even now have one.

I have used the Nikon 105mm for many years in the greenest water and visibility as low as 2-3 feet.  With a spotting (white or red) light you can still get really good images.  If you worried about distance you can get closer with a diopter.  I use a +5 subsea with great results.

I originally used this lens with a D70 and D300 DX cameras.  It worked very well on those cameras, but the autofocus performance improved a lot with the D800.  I expect any DX camera being sold today will be at least as good, certainly the D500 would be as good or better.

Below is a shot I took recently in some of the worst visibility I've experienced in a long time.  Probably 3 feet of visibility.  Finding something to shoot was difficult, but taking some shots once found was not difficult.  This was shot with the D850, 105mm, +5 closeup lens, and the Backscatter Snoot.

Thanks for the input@ChrisRoss@TimG and@davehicks. Do you mean you find the 60 mm better Chris? Tim and Dave, reassuring to hear it has worked for you in poor vis (great picture Dave!). One of the things that appeals is that it will work with wet diopters for super macro. This could get expensive!

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The point I was making was that just changing to the 105mm with the same subjects/framing means you are further away from the subject with more water between you and the subject - so it's not a cure for backscatter in murky waters.   As others have pointed out they use their 105mm lenses in less than  perfect water and are happy with the results.  So it really depends on what problem you are trying to solve by changing lens and what subjects you are shooting.  Certainly if there is a supply of really small stuff the 105 and wet lens could be put to good use.  The 60mm and 105mm bare both produce 1:1 images the 105 mm just produces it a bit further away and the field of view is a little narrower.

I shoot m43 with a 60mm lens - equivalent to a 120mm in full frame and I find it a bit long for a lot of the subjects I shoot and I will often take a 30mm macro out (60mm full frame equivalent) as I will come across larger subjects quite often that I want to shoot.    I think it really depends on what size subjects you have available. 

You could always consider the 85mm nikon macro - 127mm equivalent so close to where I operate with my setup.  I see someone answered your question re +5 diopter on a 60mm - you would get more magnification & working  distance with the 85mm than with the 60mm and it would allow you to also shoot bigger subjects more easily than with the 105mm.  It should also take the same port as the 60mm.

@ChrisRoss thanks for the clarification. Yes really I'm interested in getting better images of tiny stuff so looking at the diopters which I was concerned about having enough focal length for with the 60 mm. So that led me to looking at the 105 mm. I'll look into the 85 mm too - I hadn't considered that one.

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I tried playing around with the 105mm and a SubSee +10. I thought I was going to go bonkers. Seriously hard to focus! Probably no surprise give the DOF. Now I'm somewhere where I can spend more time in the water, I'll give it another go.

One other possibility is to use the 60 with the 1.4 teleconverter. A bit more magnification (1.4x) but you lose a stop. Very popular with the nudibranchers here in SoCal.

Bill

Hi,
been using the Nikon 60mm, Sigma 105mm and the Nikon 70 - 180mm macro zoom.
On D300 and D500 underwater, and D750 above.
Depends on what you want to shoot...
Have tried the 85mm too, but sold it again after one trip...

If you want to get tiny stuff, a +5 or a +10 Diopter ( harder to use ) can make real fantastic pics.
Even with the D500 if been using manual focus, not twisting the lens, but pushing the housing forward or back in mm steps, because its sometimes hard to get a tack sharp pic. But as Tim mentioned, a very small field of depth...

Best try it on land and the in the bathroom...

Regards,
Wolfgang

Did you not like the 85mm, Wolfgang?

Hi Tim,
not really bad, but not a keeper.
Its a DX lens, and i have a D750 as well, now added a Z6...
Found it not worth keeping beside the 60mm and the 105mm. Its more light weighted, thats the only plus i could find.
The Sigma 105 OS is a very good lens, never had the chance to try it versus the Nikon 105mm.
But its stunning sharp, works well with +5 or +10 Diopters so makes me happy ;-))
If i want it heavy i take the old micro nikkor zoom .....
Slow, but as a zoom more versatility.

Regards,
Wolfgang

ok, thanks!

As other have said, I think that the trick with dodgy water conditions is to get closer rather then further away!

The 60mm is great lens on cropped sensor cameras - it focuses fast and accurate, and has a super close working distance.

I don't think the solution would be the 105mm!

Interesting Bill. I actually have the kenko 1.4. Have used it a bit for wide angle stuff but not thought to try for macro. Thanks Wolfgang - nice to hear about your experiences. Yes that's what I was wondering Adam whether the longer distance would prove hard in poor vis.

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Wolfgang did you try the diopters with the 60 mm too or was that unworkable?

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Hi Claire,
havent thought about the 60mm with diopters.
It has closest focus 18cm ( from the sensor ) so if you use a diopter, even only +5 there is not much space between port glas and subject...
And you need some space to bring the light in too...
With the Sigma 105mm its 32cm, and the Nikon micro Zoom has 37cm ( but its an external focusing lens, so it comes out ~ 5cm if you get to the closest focus point ). Both these lenses i have been using with  +5 and +10 subsee diopters.
What i like about these two lenses too, you can stay a bit away from the animal, so its not so scared, as if you nearly punch it.
If you watch a pygmy breathing, what you can easily see throught a macro lens, and some divers before you tried to get a good shot ( means ~ 10 each ), its breathing very quickly, thats a streß symptom.
So i find it ok to stay a bit further away for my shots.

Regards,
Wolfgang

I'm with Wolfgang

That's why I like the 105mm. You don't have to be on top of the poor critter. I saw WAY too much of that in Lembeh with the pygmies.

Sorry Tim,
cannot give you a like!
Its sometimes realy a pain in the a..
when you see what people do to get a "great" shot..
Laying on the ground, bending corals, guides forcing critters out, there they would normaly not be during daylight...
Just one story,
you allways see guides trying to find feather star shrimp, and force them outside on an arm.
Sorry,
these little guys live normally during daytime between the feet of a fatherstar..
So no chance to get a good pic.
But during night time, they are easy to photograph, because they are sitting on the arms of the featherstars...
So simply take a night dive to take a pic of them!
Respect the nature if ou want something from it!

Totally agree. There were times when it was so depressing. There was one superb Gorgonian in front of KBR that got flattened by the clamour of folks wanting to snap the pygmies that were on it.  The team and I were dragging people away - taking them in other directions etc. Just a lost cause. 

105mm folks!