Need advice on Backscatter Mini Flash 1

I am currently imaging on a Sony RX100VA in a Fantasea line FRX100VA VAC, I am currently using a Kraken WSR 5000+ as a light (I am trying to use this for photography).  I am wondering if I should change over to a Backscatter Mini Flash 1 for photography.  I currently enjoy sudo-macro and close focus wide angle photography. I know in the near future I will be getting a housing for my Sony A7iii which I use all the time for my above water photography and Im way more comfortable using.

many times while using the Kraken the batter will die within 35-40 of use (I also lower the power). To get 2 spare batteries for the Kraken 5000 its going to cost $250, to get the backscatter mini flash its going to cost $400.  I feel the slight price difference is worth it to get the dedicated strobe. Should I plan to keep an eye out for sales on the Backscatter Mini Flash 1 or should I keep using my Kraken WSR 5000+?  What are your thoughts?

Hi Dann-Oh

Aside from the options you are currently thinking about, it might be better, long-term if you are thinking of A Sony A7 to plan slightly more long range.

There are very few things in the u/w camera world that survive very many camera body iterations. Change a camera and most of your "investment" goes out of the window.

Except, I'd argue, the strobes, the strobe arms, a viewfinder and a vacuum valve. These, usually, can move from camera to camera, system to system over many years and, to an extent, really hold their value. As an example, I have ULCs strobe arms that go back more than 20 years; a 12-year old 45-degree Subal viewfinder which has progressed from D300 to D800 to now D500; and a vacuum valve which has also been on 3 systems.

Strobes are much the same. I used Inon Z240s from about 2009 to quite recently and they were brilliant. I'd have stayed with them except for the emergence of the Retras.

So it might be worth thinking in the longer term about strobes if you are serious about moving to the Sony. Take a look at the Inons, now the Z330 (or second hand Z240s), or the Retras - Prime or Pro. Yes, you pay a chunk of change but, by my experience, you're then very good to go for a good number of years. They almost really are an investment and will survive a number of generations of camera changes.

3 hours ago, TimG said:

Hi Dann-Oh

Aside from the options you are currently thinking about, it might be better, long-term if you are thinking of A Sony A7 to plan slightly more long range.

Take a look at the Inons, now the Z330 (or second hand Z240s), or the Retras - Prime or Pro. Yes, you pay a chunk of change but, by my experience, you're then very good to go for a good number of years. They almost really are an investment and will survive a number of generations of camera changes.

Thanks for the recommendations, however both the Inon and Retra are way beyond my budget.  As a hobbyist I can not justify those prices, especially since everywhere is recommending to get 2 of them.

I understand that I will be compromising with the Mini Flash. I really like the compactness of the Backscatter Mini Flash's size and that is something I am okay with, for now.

Right now I'm not enjoying my photography because I have the Kraken 5000 and its just not the right tool for photography, I have taken it on about 15 dives this year but I have captured maybe 5-6 photos with it because I either cant get it to work or the battery dies mid dive.

Hi Dann-Oh,

The Backscatter Mini Flash is not a bad choice, as long as you are willing to work unthinkable it’s restrictions.  For macro and close work it will do the job.  Do not expect it to be much use for wide angle.  I have one, but have not had a chance to really use it (Covid).

Another option is buying used.  Lots of very affordable equipment is sold here daily.

If you feel that only one strobe will be too restrictive you might want to read Alex Mustard’s book.  He stresses using “only” one strobe in all his workshops.  Effective close and macro photography can easily be accomplished with only one strobe.

Enjoy the journey that we call Under Water Photography, it is addictive and very rewarding.

Brant

31 minutes ago, PhotoJunkie said:

The Backscatter Mini Flash is not a bad choice, as long as you are willing to work unthinkable it’s restrictions.  

Do you mind elaborating on what you mean by its restrictions.

32 minutes ago, PhotoJunkie said:

Another option is buying used.  Lots of very affordable equipment is sold here daily.

I've been keeping an eye on the classifieds section for the last week or so, fingers crossed to find something.

34 minutes ago, PhotoJunkie said:

If you feel that only one strobe will be too restrictive you might want to read Alex Mustard’s book.  He stresses using “only” one strobe in all his workshops.  Effective close and macro photography can easily be accomplished with only one strobe.

Enjoy the journey that we call Under Water Photography, it is addictive and very rewarding.

I am currently working my way thorough Alex Mustard's book.  Its really a great read.

I'm hoping Backscatter will have a black Friday type sale and Ill be able to pick up something on a good sale.

2 hours ago, Dann-Oh said:

Do you mind elaborating on what you mean by its restrictions.

It is intended to be used primarily for macro work, but that can be stretched a bit for medium sized subjects.  If you go to Backscatter’s site and watch their videos you will get a better understanding.

Call Backscatter and talk to them.  I have done this numerous times with many different questions and they always took whatever amount of time that was necessary to help me better understand.

Good luck.

Brant

The backscatter strobe has a number of restrictions including low power output and limited coverage angle.  This is not a problem for macro as you are much closer to your subject and you don't need coverage that wide angle demands.  With the RX-100 and its small sensor you could probably get it to work sort of OK for wide angle as the small sensor means you are not stopping down so much for depth of field.  f5.6 on the Sony is about the same DOF as f16 on full frame.  I'm sure it would be totally fine for macro work on any system. 

The other strobe to consider for macro work in the little S-2000 INON - it has 100° beam coverage and would do wide angle just fine with your current setup.   Not quite as powerful as you would like for a full frame upgrade , but you could probably make it work with some compromises including shooting at full power with long recycle times.  You might be satisfied for occasional wide angle shooting.

You say you are on a budget and find the prices for strobes to be too high to justify, I would suggest it is better to think longer term - you certainly don't want to be buying twice!  I would also suggest (a little tongue in cheek) if you find the prices high for strobes prohibitive, housing the A7-III will be rather painful.  I know you can get cheap housing options for them which would be fine for macro shooting but wide angle  is another story and the domes offered really restrict your image quality.  Personally I would prefer a well setup lesser specced camera with a good lighting setup than a compromise full frame option.

Certainly the video light option is not worth pursuing for still imaging - the light might seem very bright but it is at least 8 stops away from a strobe in light output.

I use the Backscatter strobe & snoot quite a lot since I bought one in late March.  There was a major sale at that time of just $300 for the Strobe/Snoot combo.  Perhaps they will repeat that sale price at some point.

I've mostly used it for Macro Snoot photography and I really like it a lot.  By far the best snoot setup I have used, much easier and accurate that the attachments I've tried on my Inon 330s.  I do take the snoot off and shoot the strobe directly, generally as a fill light for my primary 330.  It does a pretty good job here, and I think you'll do pretty well for small subjects.  Get the snoot if you can as it's really fun to use.  (but not for your dive buddy - my wife hates diving with me when I use it)

Two limitations to be aware of:

1) Battery life is not great.  If you are using the spotting light as you do in snoot mode, it's probably limited to 150 shots.  So buy a second battery and bring it along to swap out for dive #2.  Get 3400 mAh cells or better.  Nitecore or Titanium are good quality and known to work.

2) The optical trigger is not very sensitive.  If your optical cables are just a bit degraded, bent, or kinked it may fail to trigger.  The Inon's are much more sensitive and easy to trigger.  

8 hours ago, ChrisRoss said:

 

You say you are on a budget and find the prices for strobes to be too high to justify, I would suggest it is better to think longer term - you certainly don't want to be buying twice!  I would also suggest (a little tongue in cheek) if you find the prices high for strobes prohibitive, housing the A7-III will be rather painful. 

 

Chris makes a really good point here......

I have been using two of the Mini-Flash exclusively for shooting macro locally her in SoCal. Here is a local nudibranch (Spanish Shawl, Flabellinopsis iodinea) from a dive yesterday. The colors on Wetpixel look too green but you get the idea. The flashes work fine and I have no trouble triggering them with the Nauticam LED trigger for Olympus

Bill

@TimG and @ChrisRoss I am very aware of the cost of the housing for the Sony A7III, unfortunately the housing is eating almost all of my budget. I mean I guess I could get the strobes now and then re-save up for the housing for my A7III. I'm just not a big fan of my RX100va any more. 

@bvanant, what was your dive site for this photo? I'm also a local SoCal diver, I've seen the Spanish Shawl at Shaw's Cove in Laguna Beach.

20 hours ago, Dann-Oh said:

@TimG and @ChrisRoss I am very aware of the cost of the housing for the Sony A7III, unfortunately the housing is eating almost all of my budget. I mean I guess I could get the strobes now and then re-save up for the housing for my A7III. I'm just not a big fan of my RX100va any more. 

 

@bvanant, what was your dive site for this photo? I'm also a local SoCal diver, I've seen the Spanish Shawl at Shaw's Cove in Laguna Beach.

Sorry to make the point - but the point that you don't want to buy twice still stands.  The backscatter strobe would be totally fine for macro with either system, it is just not going to work that well for wide angle. 

I would also suggest that just because you have and like a camera for topside use doesn't mean it's the best choice for you to house and take UW.  I don't know which housing you are looking at - but if it's Nauticam the A7III housing is $US3189 and you could buy the EM-5III housing plus the camera plus the 60mm macro lens for $3222. You also don't need to spend $$ on a strobe trigger if you use the Oly mini flash.

I'm not suggesting necessarily to get the EM-5III, just to illustrate how much prices vary as you increase sensor size.  The macro ports are more or less the same for the two systems,  but the wide angle ports and lenses are significantly more expensive for full frame systems.  The other thing that scales with sensor size if depth of field which is why full frame needs bigger domes - with smaller sensors you can shoot at f8 which is less demanding on flash power so you can get away with the cheaper lower power strobes, with full frame you would be f11-16.   Particularly if you need to stick to a budget look at your proposed rig from a total system point of view.

Chris's point is a good one. Similarly you could pick up a used Olympus or Panasonic system for a lot less than $3K.

The spanish shawl was shot at Palos Verdes at the White Point poo pipe.

Bill