Advice on upgrade

Hi,

I’ve had a Nikon D800 with a nauticam housing for quite some years now. Time has come to start thinking about an upgrade having my mind set on a Sony A7R III.

I have a couple of Inon Z-240s, do you think I should change those as well? One of the main reasons I’m upgrading is because I want to do more video clips so I’ll have to get a video light for sure anyway.

Thanks for your comments.

Do you feel that your Z-240s are lacking in some way? Going from D800 to A7 won't change your sensor size, so given similar lenses, you'll be shooting at the same aperture, ISO and shutter speed values, and the strobe effect won't change between cameras. Keep in mind that for a significant upgrade of Z-240s, you'll need something like a Retra Pro, or at least Retra Prime - Z-330 is a fairly incremental change, so I would argue that it's not necessarily worth the money if you already have a serviceable pair of Z-240s, but going to Retras and their accessories is a big investment in terms of cash - and you're about to change your camera body, all the lenses, housing, and possibly ports as well, plus add video lights to the setup.

Any particular reason you're going for an A7R III rather than IV?

I had the same internal debate when I moved from the D800 to the D500. I had been using INon Z240s for donkeys years and really liked them: reliable, travelable, AA batteries and, for me, powerful enough.

I think it was reading something in WP reviewing the Retras 2.0 that made me decide to sell the Z240 as production was ending and "invest" in Retras.

I have to say I have never regretted it for a moment. I'd still recommend the Inons (although I don't know about the Z330 other than what I read on WP) but the Retras are, I think, superb: extremely well made, really nice light, perfect with the LSD for snoot/macro photography, robust, AA batteries and not quite as travelable as the INONs but still pretty good.

Are they worth the extra? I think so. They are a really solid product and there is a difference in the light quality and output. There's an excellent range of accessories which allow even more light manipulation - and the backup support and service is first class. 

if you have the cash and can get a good price for your Inons, I'd go for it!

I would say the same about the Z-240s, if they work now, they'll continue to work later on the same lens options.  There some nice upgrades available but certainly not essential.

On the choice Sony full frame cameras for video, I would suggest reading the fine print for each of the camera models.  the capabilities vary quite a bit between models, particularly look for cropping when in various video modes.  That is when shooting video it doesn't use the whole sensor so you lose field of view.   The A7SIII for example I believe does all modes using the full sensor, while other models will crop in various video modes.  I have seen a number of queries around this topic so if you haven't done so already I suggest you check the capabilities of each model with regards to video.   It requires digging into the specs to find the information sometimes.

I also want to shoot some video so I opted to use dedicated video lights. I was told to get the most powerful video lights (2 of them) that I could afford so I bought 2 of the Kraken 8000s. I use the video lights for video, and the Inon strobes for stills. 

So I think the decision has been made easy for me, I just drown one of the z-240s, I let someone else to have a look at them and I didn’t realize he didn’t seal it properly, one dive later it was full of water :/

anyway, I’ve been mostly happy until now with my 240s, the only thing that annoys me is the recycle time, not the best when shooting manta or shark action, more than once I’ve been left frustrated when the best shoot came dark because the strobe wasn’t ready.

Also important is easy to travel, right now I carry camera plus lenses plus strobes in my hand luggage which is already quite heavy … I think I still have quite a lot of research to do.

@Barmaglot you are right, it’s just a bit confusing with Sony, I’ve been reading but still not sure between the 7R IV, 7S and Alpha 1. Too many choices :/

42 minutes ago, widarecu said:

So I think the decision has been made easy for me, I just drown one of the z-240s, I let someone else to have a look at them and I didn’t realize he didn’t seal it properly, one dive later it was full of water :/

Wow...

43 minutes ago, widarecu said:

anyway, I’ve been mostly happy until now with my 240s, the only thing that annoys me is the recycle time, not the best when shooting manta or shark action, more than once I’ve been left frustrated when the best shoot came dark because the strobe wasn’t ready.

For what it's worth, my experience using Retra Pro strobes with superchargers and eneloop pro batteries is that they can fire reliably at 3fps at up to half power. Half power of a Retra Pro (150W/s on a full dump, so approximately 75 W/s) is still more than a full dump on a Z-240 (IIRC, 57 W/s). The spread is also more even with a circular bulb, and if you want reach rather than spread, there is a reflector accessory that concentrates the beam and doubles the brightness (+1 stop) - this allows for shooting skittish subjects from several meters away..

1 hour ago, widarecu said:

Also important is easy to travel, right now I carry camera plus lenses plus strobes in my hand luggage which is already quite heavy … I think I still have quite a lot of research to do. 

My Cinebags CB70 Square Grouper, filled with a camera inside housing, ports, tray, strobes, arms, clamps, several lenses, several torches, big pile of batteries and some other accessories tends to weigh around 20kg.

59 minutes ago, widarecu said:

@Barmaglot you are right, it’s just a bit confusing with Sony, I’ve been reading but still not sure between the 7R IV, 7S and Alpha 1. Too many choices :/

In a nutshell, A1 is the best all-around camera, with the best autofocus currently on the market, unique shutter mechanism that can sync at 1/400s (1/500s in APS-C crop mode) and a bunch of other features, but also by far the most expensive at $6500 for body alone. A7R IV has a very slight edge in photo quality, but isn't as fast as the A1, and the high-res sensor forces certain compromises in video quality, but it's the least expensive of the three at $3500. A7S III is focused on video, but the relatively low resolution (12MP, 4240 x 2832) sensor limits its still photo quality, while the cost is in the middle of the pack at $4500. There is also an A7 IV, which is close to A7R IV in features except for sensor resolution (33MP vs 61.2MP), but costs $2500. Disclaimer: all of this is gathered from reviews, not from personal experience - I've been shooting an A6300 for the past five years or so, and I'm waiting for the A1 tech to filter down into an APS-C body to make an upgrade.

23 hours ago, Barmaglot said:

Wow...

For what it's worth, my experience using Retra Pro strobes with superchargers and eneloop pro batteries is that they can fire reliably at 3fps at up to half power. Half power of a Retra Pro (150W/s on a full dump, so approximately 75 W/s) is still more than a full dump on a Z-240 (IIRC, 57 W/s). The spread is also more even with a circular bulb, and if you want reach rather than spread, there is a reflector accessory that concentrates the beam and doubles the brightness (+1 stop) - this allows for shooting skittish subjects from several meters away..

My Cinebags CB70 Square Grouper, filled with a camera inside housing, ports, tray, strobes, arms, clamps, several lenses, several torches, big pile of batteries and some other accessories tends to weigh around 20kg.

In a nutshell, A1 is the best all-around camera, with the best autofocus currently on the market, unique shutter mechanism that can sync at 1/400s (1/500s in APS-C crop mode) and a bunch of other features, but also by far the most expensive at $6500 for body alone. A7R IV has a very slight edge in photo quality, but isn't as fast as the A1, and the high-res sensor forces certain compromises in video quality, but it's the least expensive of the three at $3500. A7S III is focused on video, but the relatively low resolution (12MP, 4240 x 2832) sensor limits its still photo quality, while the cost is in the middle of the pack at $4500. There is also an A7 IV, which is close to A7R IV in features except for sensor resolution (33MP vs 61.2MP), but costs $2500. Disclaimer: all of this is gathered from reviews, not from personal experience - I've been shooting an A6300 for the past five years or so, and I'm waiting for the A1 tech to filter down into an APS-C body to make an upgrade.

Great insights thanks, I’ll have to compare prices and decide. 
 

about the camera, I’m getting my mind set to the A1, I just think it’s better to go with the top of the line from the beginning instead of regretting it later … at the end you’ll stick with the same camera for 5-10 years so I think it’s worth.

16 hours ago, widarecu said:

Great insights thanks, I’ll have to compare prices and decide. 
 

about the camera, I’m getting my mind set to the A1, I just think it’s better to go with the top of the line from the beginning instead of regretting it later … at the end you’ll stick with the same camera for 5-10 years so I think it’s worth.

I would still suggest looking at the features in detail.  On the A1 for example 4K video is a 1.13 crop at 4K120p and 4K is pixel binned rather than downsampled, unless you use the super 35 option which is around a 1.4x crop.  The A1 is undoubtedly a great stills camera but it is expensive and you could buy a decent dive trip with difference to a Sony A7RIV.    Don't remember who said it but I tend to agree, "To get better images one of the best things you can do is 'buy' better water"

7 minutes ago, ChrisRoss said:

I would still suggest looking at the features in detail.  On the A1 for example 4K video is a 1.13 crop at 4K120p

AIUI, A7S III uses the same crop at 4K120p.

Just now, Barmaglot said:

AIUI, A7S III uses the same crop at 4K120p.

Yes, there are so many options they are hard to digest.  The pixel binning is probably the main difference for video quality.