Quick comment on Z9 underwater

I've been shooting the Z9 for 25 dives now, and I'm starting to get used to it.   I'm coming from a D850, and a D810 before that, all housed by Nauticam.

My experience with the DSLR's was with the 16-35vr and the 105vr. Plus two dives with the 60mm macro.  And a few with a TC on the 105.

Compared to the D850, I find the experience mostly similar, comfortably so.   The viewfinder is annoying, but other than that it seems to get out of my way.  Might be different on a night dive, but I don't do night dives.  It's annoying because it constantly goes off when I'm not shooting for a while (a good thing to save battery), but then I have to remember to thumb the AFON lever to wake up the viewfinder before I get it to my eye.  Obviously never had to do that with the DSLRs, so it's added a lever press to my in-water workflow every time I raise the camera.  I guess the in-viewfinder review is nice, but I do have to press a lever to do the review, whereas my old workflow was just to glance at the monitor on the back.

Autofocus:  I used 3d Tracking on the D850, and it was wonderful.   I use 3d Tracking on the Z9 and it is wonderful.   I think the D850 might have a slight edge on tiny, close, dimly-lit stuff like Wire Shrimp, but giving a bit of focus light help, the Z9 does as well.   Subject tracking - [I'm smiling as I think what to say] - sometimes gives interesting results.  I was amused when it focused on the nostrils of a Green Moray Eel instead of the eyes.  It does OK at picking things out of the water like a barracuda swimming by, but it clearly isn't recognizing any kind of animal subjects.  So, stick with 3d tracking, and do some trickery with the viewfinder to help autofocus in dim lighting. (Turn up sharpening, AF on Z9 uses viewfinder feed...)   I do focus-and-recompose for the most part, and the edge-to-edge ability for the Z9 is welcome and useful.

The Z9 files seem just better on two fronts - white balance and higher ISO colors.  Perhaps two sides of the same coin.  First, I got a lot of underwater shots that were credible out of camera, using Auto white balance down to maybe 50 feet.  Not correct white balance, but a lot better than the murky green I used to see.  I shoot RAW and color balance stills in post, but I was pleasantly surprised to see a lot of images start out close.  And colors seemed hold up better at high ISOs also.   (Than either D810 or D850 files). 

Lenses - clear win for mirrorless here, compared to what I was shooting,  The 105s is sharper than the 105vr, and the vr was no slouch.  As for how they feel in the water, pretty much exactly the same. The 14-30 also seems clearly sharper than the 16-35.  I'm shooting both of them with Sea and Sea Internal Correction Lenses behind the same 230mm dome.   90mm extension on the DSLRs, 50mm on the Z9.  I did have an issue with the 14-30 on one dive refusing to work, showing a F___ error.  After the dive I removed the camera from the housing, removed the lens and wiped the lens contacts with th.e bit of towel to rub off oxidation.  That worked and the lens resumed working.  (The contacts did look dirty.)

The 14-30 is very sharp in the center, and acceptable on the edges.  I shot it mostly around F8-F14.

I haven't even gotten to video yet.  Had a lot to get used to get comfortable with new gear.  Plus had a fiber cable break today - used the spare.

The extremely brief bit of video I have done with the Z9 is easily superior to the DSLRs.  Autofocus actually works during video.   I can shoot at 4k120p for cropping and slow motion.  Or 8k raw.  Night and day difference, most of which I don't understand.

Handling-wise, the Z9/Nauticam is pretty pleasant to work with.  All the buttons and knobs you need are conveniently at finger, except changing ISO values.  That is a pain that has me reaching left hand off the left grip to turn a knob over on the right side.  (Same with D850).  The Z9 does have 4 Function buttons that are all conveniently accessible.  That opens up a lot of possibilities.

Great write up...thanks!

Yeah, really useful. Thanks.

Had a bit of an issue yesterday with the Nauticam housing.  The two buttons for Fn4 and Delete are ... problematic.  The clearance on these buttons feels wrong, as if they are too long and start out half-pressing the buttons on the camera.

Yesterday I started the first dive, pressed Fn4 (brings up My Menu entry 1) and found that the button did not spring back.   Not due to the spring, or binding in the button, but simply because it is too close to the camera.  Once pressed, there wasn't even clearance for the button to come up and release, so the whole dive was done with the function button held down, preventing me from doing any of menu changes - or even review my shots.

With camera out, the buttons feel like all the others,  With camera in, they are marginal in terms of being too close to the camera.   Not sure if there is an adjustment for this.

I started shooting a bit of video today, but I haven't looked at the results yet.  The workflow is the same as the D850, with the addition of actually-working autofocus.  I haven't tested it on anything that requires subject tracking, and shooting a 14-30 at F9 means not really needing to focus change much anyway.   I have it set for 4k120p and 1/200th or 1/250th shutter speed.   I like that (like the D850), the Z9 holds a completely different set of parameters for video from stills.   That is, if I switch back and forth between video and stills, I get different WB settings for each (I have video set for Pre, and still set to Auto), and many other different settings.   That makes it far easier to swap back and forth, though generally if I'm shooting video, I'm staying there the whole dive.

The White Balance setting procedure is a pain.  It's a bit cumbersome, requiring you move at least one hand off the grip.   You hold down the WB button for a period of time (too slow already), then when the WB setting box appears you aim it at a target and press the OK button to sample the WB.  At that point the camera announced 'Data Acquired', and you need to press the Info button (or perhaps AF-ON0 to get back to your shooting status.   Each time takes about 4-5 seconds.   Wish it amounted to two button presses where I didn't have to move my left hand, but I think it's the same on the D850 housing.

When you do shoot video, there is an extremely obvious red border that comes up around the viewfinder, making it pretty easy to see that you are actively recording.  I've had numerous other cameras where that was hard to tell, and I ended up not recording when I thought (and vice-versa).  This feature is very welcome.   It's easier to tell if you are recording video than seeing that you took a still.

Not sure what else to say about the rig underwater.   It's like a DSLR rig, except for the viewfinder (which I have to say is just still a pain to deal with after an optical viewfinder.)  Obviously video is superior to any DSLR I've used before.   As for stills, it's really close to a D850, though I think the files may actually be better somehow.   But for stills, it's mostly a waste of money to upgrade from a D850 - with possibile exception of the lens quality.   If the 16-35 and 105vr were marginal for you, the Z mount equivalents will improve upon them a little, at least in terms of sharpness.

I have the impression that the Z9 files just seem to have less noise and better color at higher ISOs.  

I'm not having any difficulty with autofocus using 3d Tracking.   The other modes seem pretty useless underwater.  3D Tracking itself sometimes jumps around a bit, something I never saw the D850 do.  I'm thinking subject detection jumps in on occasion.  Now that I'm use to it, focusing on Wire Shrimp and Wire Coral is ok.  Just have to be sure the lens is prefocused in the near range so it won't grab the background, and use a focus light to make the wire coral reasonably visible.

Battery life: Not enough experience to say yet.   Like the D850, shooting stills all day (3 dives, hour each) doesn't stress the battery at all.  The D850 would typically have more than half the battery left at the end of the day.   The Z9 has an even bigger battery, but then it has the viewfinder to drive, and I'm running mine at 120fps.

The D850 would use its battery pretty much 95-100% over two dives if shooting video.   I definitely could not shoot video over 3 dives with it.

I don't know about the Z9 yet.   I shot only a bit of video today, mostly on the last dive. The battery was at 67% after 3 dives today.   I have one more full day here, and if it is sunny I'll try to shoot quite a lot of video over 3 dives, if only to stress the battery and gain some practice.   

I have three dives tomorrow, and I do two dives Friday morning (without a wetsuit) before flying home Saturday.  Any questions I can try to answer/tests to run?

Fascinating stuff, thanks!

Really annoying on the two buttons. Something I guess for the dealer to sort out with an adjustment?

Why is the viewfinder a pain after a DSLR?

Hope the rest of the dives go ok!

12 hours ago, TimG said:

Fascinating stuff, thanks!

Really annoying on the two buttons. Something I guess for the dealer to sort out with an adjustment?

I don't know.   Wish I had the rig at the Digital Shootout in June so the Nauticam rep there could look at it.   I think the those two buttons need adjustment, or my camera is different somehow.  They seem to be the only two buttons that are overly 'tight' and clearly feel wrong compared to all the rest. 

12 hours ago, TimG said:

Why is the viewfinder a pain after a DSLR?

Mostly because it shuts off.  Honestly, I have to treat this camera pretty much in the same way as my old point-n-shoots, for the same reason.  Battery life issues have the camera designed to constantly shut off viewfinders within a short period of time.  Which means if you see something important you need to shoot right NOW can be missed as you bring the camera to your eye and see nothing.  I'm gradually learning to press the AF-ON button as I bring the camera up to make sure it is awake, but that simple act is something I still forget to do.   I may get to the point of setting the timeout to as long as it allows, if the battery will still last 3 dives.

12 hours ago, TimG said:

Hope the rest of the dives go ok!

Dives are going well.  Sometimes issues working around other divers this trip.  Usually I'm the only diver.  And I'm breaking my own (very modest) record for dives in a year.  Did 29 in Bonaire in June, and 33 so far in Roatan with 5 to go.

I have been having cold issues though.  My new custom-fitted 3 mil is working fine, but I'm hitting a thermocline here at 80 feet that has me freezing.  Freezing!   And when I checked my dive logs I was shocked and dismayed to see that the coldest temps all week have been 84.2F.   86F at the surface feels great.  85F halfway down is OK, but cool.  But 84 has me shivering, and I'm thinking I'll have to get a 5 mil for the 82F water in Truk.  I can't understand why I'm so cold.  Three other divers with me are wearing shorties.

4 hours ago, phxazcraig said:

I can't understand why I'm so cold.  Three other divers with me are wearing shorties.

LOL, I have that all time time here! It was 85F in the water last week and I was in a 3mm suit AND a 2.5mm vest. Folks were rocking up in skins! It goes down to 81F in the winter and I'm thinking about a dry suit....  It could be age. But I like to think of it more as a delightful acclimatisation to diving in the right conditions  Funny, there was a day when I would dive anywhere in the UK at any time of year. Note the past tense.

4 hours ago, phxazcraig said:

I'm gradually learning to press the AF-ON button as I bring the camera up to make sure it is awake,

Yeah, I have the same issue with my Z6 (and now Z9). I remember reading of the need to develop the muscle memory to press the shutter button to bring the camera back to life as soon as the idea of an image comes to mind. I'm not quite there yet and still get annoyed when I look in the viewfinder and all I see is black.

4 hours ago, phxazcraig said:

I think the those two buttons need adjustment,

It does sound like it. It's not totally unusual though when you put a camera in a new housing. The last time (actually the only time) I had my housing serviced, I noticed that Reef Photo recommended sending the camera with it so they could make sure all the buttons aligned and functioned correctly.

When I got my (then new) Subal D500 housing I had to make one very small adjustment on one button which was pressing incorrectly. Happily on Subal that is pretty easily done with a small Allen key.

4 hours ago, TimG said:

LOL, I have that all time time here! It was 85F in the water last week and I was in a 3mm suit AND a 2.5mm vest. Folks were rocking up in skins! It goes down to 81F in the winter and I'm thinking about a dry suit....  It could be age. But I like to think of it more as a delightful acclimatisation to diving in the right conditions  Funny, there was a day when I would dive anywhere in the UK at any time of year. Note the past tense.

 

Everyone is different, in 85F(29°C) water I would be diving in skins and I dived in skins in Lembeh where it was 28°C.  Body fat has a lot to do with it and total body weight as does base metabolism which varies among people.  If you are large framed your surface area to volume ratio is more favorable to stay warm.  You also get acclimatized to conditions if you are diving them often enough. 

Unfortunately while I might be happy diving in 29°C water in skins I don't find the surface weather conditions in the tropics so pleasant.  I can put up with them, but don't find them pleasant.

Something interesting happened today that I'll need to confirm. When you shoot video, you get a whole separate memory of video settings from stills.  Makes it easy to go back and forth from stills to video because the old settings are retained.

Including white balance.  There, I had wb set to Auto, and in video I had wb set to PRE2.   I would rebalance color quite often for video.  And as reported by Backscatter and others, it stops being able to wb at around 50 feet. Well, at some point I forgot I was in stills mode and set a PRE2 white balance.right around 50 feet.  I then saw I was in stills, switched to video and tried to set a white balance there - and it would not take it.  I then switched back to stills, set the wb to PRE3 then switched back to video and selected PRE3 to shoot.

Does the Z9 do a better white balance in stills mode?

I figured out the housing/button issue where the Fn4 button was pressed down and wouldn't come back up.   User error.  When you slide the camera into the housing and lock the mount, there is a lever that pushes down on the the shutter speed button on upper left.  It is supposed to spring up as the camera goes in and press on that button.  Somehow I jammed the camera into the housing and did not get that lever on top of the button.  Instead, it jammed the side of that button (the one you press to turn the dial, upper left) and nearly broke it off.  The button is half-broken, though I bent the plastic back a bit.   The camera was then tilted back enough to engage the back two buttons almost all the way.  Camera inserted correctly and those buttons work fine, just like all the rest.

I shot a bit of video with the Z9.  Mostly getting familiar with the feel and controls because I started late on testing video.  If you get the white balance right, which is easy down to about 50 feet, you get a nice video, like the D850.  Except you have autofocus that works, and aren't stuck at 30p with your 4k.  I shot 4k 120p for a number of 10-20 second clips to play with later.  I want to learn Premier Pro a bit when I come home.  Video was definitely the place where the Z9 feels most different from a DSLR.  It seems easy with the Z9 to go back and forth with stills and video. I found the viewfinder convenient when hovering for extra stability, and Live View mode convenient when swimming with arms outstretched.  Often with one hand on a strobe arm for more camera stability.

As far as ANY of the fancy video features, I was mostly oblivious, trying to focus on subjects and stability.  I did notice zebra stripes at several points when the sun was near the frame, or another diver's video lights were pointing at me.  I did appreciate the red border around the frame when you record video, and yet I still managed to turn off the video by accident and not notice it while coming through Calvin's Crack.