Upgrade point and shoot to mirrorless?

Hey all, I've been wondering if an upgrade is worth it. My UW set up is currently a Canon G7x with a single YS-D2J strobe and a kraken video light. I've had it since 2018 and it seems to work pretty well. I use wet lenses and I like the flexibility of being able to shoot multiple subject types on a single dive.

I recently purchased a Sony A7r IV for birding and wildlife portraits. It's a lot smaller than my DSLR, so I'm considering getting a housing kit to use as my UW setup also. The housings, etc are pretty expensive, and I'm wondering if it's even worth it. I feel like my photo quality may be a reflection of my lack of skill and not due to bad equipment.

Any suggestions? My other idea was to just purchase a second strobe and longer arms so that I can have more flexibility with strobe positioning. Thank you!

Don't do it!

Going from a compact to a fullframe mirrorless, when you already know that you haven't reached the full potential of your current kit yet is just asking for trouble and disappointment. It's massively more complex, more difficult to transport and total system cost is also way more expensive (it's not just the housing, but ports, lenses etc). I agree with Pete. Don't do it, unless you know what's wrong with your images and that it will be fixed by a better camera (unlikely).

6 hours ago, pby said:

Hey all, I've been wondering if an upgrade is worth it. My UW set up is currently a Canon G7x with a single YS-D2J strobe and a kraken video light. I've had it since 2018 and it seems to work pretty well. I use wet lenses and I like the flexibility of being able to shoot multiple subject types on a single dive.

I recently purchased a Sony A7r IV for birding and wildlife portraits. It's a lot smaller than my DSLR, so I'm considering getting a housing kit to use as my UW setup also. The housings, etc are pretty expensive, and I'm wondering if it's even worth it. I feel like my photo quality may be a reflection of my lack of skill and not due to bad equipment.

Any suggestions? My other idea was to just purchase a second strobe and longer arms so that I can have more flexibility with strobe positioning. Thank you!

Just because you have a camera you use on the surface doesn't make it the best option to take UW.  Depending on lenses you want to use the ports can be quite big even if the camera itself seems quite small and the costs for all components tend to scale directly with sensor size.  

You mention you like the flexibility of shooting multiple subjects on the same dive and you will find that not quite so achievable on a full frame system.   

For example you can use a WWL-1 with and A7 series Sony and the 28-60.  In theory you can swap that out for a macro lens but in practice the general concensus is that it it's impractical UW due to the size and weight of the WWl-1 and the need to keep it somewhere when you remove it.  Some would argue though that sticking to one type of photography during  a dive allows you to better focus on subjects and the mindset needed to make better images.

You might be better served by staying with your current setup, wait a couple of years and re-evaluate then.

I suppose I'm doing it wrong ;-) With the A7C, I've found I can swap between a WWL-1B and a macro fairly quickly (WWL-1B is almost, but not quite neutral), but the trick was finding a place to store the WWL-1B, marking the WWL so it easily aligns to the port, and then dealing with the small-ish latches with dry gloves! But overall, I like the ability to go between a Manta and a nudi on the same dive. Never know what you're going to see. 

The big watershed question in matters like this is, do you take pictures while diving, or do you dive to take pictures? A G7X with a single strobe can go either way - you can clip it off and just enjoy the dive, pulling it out when you want to take an occasional snapshot for memories, but it can also serve as a centerpiece of a dedicated photography dive, where most of your time is occupied by looking for photography subjects and opportunities. An A7R IV with a pair of strobes, however, falls squarely in the latter camp - compact as it is, it's still big, heavy, draggy, expensive, and in general not something you just bring along unless photography is the main aim of your dive.

If you do dive for photos, then housing your A7R IV - which will cost somewhere around $10k, factoring in housing, ports, lenses, wet lenses, strobes and other ancillaries - will give you considerably greater detail in your photos, much faster and more reliable autofocus, and, with a dedicated macro setup (i.e. Sony 90mm), much better macro capability. On the other hand, your rig will be several times heavier (think 10kg or thereabouts, although you can make it neutral in the water with floats), draggier, and all-around more difficult to maneuver, especially in tight spaces. You will also get considerably shallower depth of field in your shots, which is limiting in macro, and your flash sync speed will be limited to 1/160s (1/250s with a TTL-capable trigger), which can affect your ability to shoot sunballs.

As far as flexibility goes, you can dive it with 28-60mm and wet lenses, just like your G7X, although the WWL-1 wet lens required to do so is still quite bulky and heavy. Alternatively, you can shoot it with dedicated fisheye (Canon 8-15mm/Sigma 15mm), rectilinear wide (Sony 12-24mm, 16-35mm, Tamron 17-28mm) or macro (Sony 90mm, Sigma 105mm) lenses. The body and housing themselves are not particularly big, but ports, and especially long strobe arms and floats definitely add up to overall bulk.

Thank you everyone for the feedback! It sounds like the consensus is to just stick with my current camera! I'm quite happy with the photos from my last two trips but I know I can improve a lot more.

I think the next step for me is to invest in a second strobe and some more arms/floats. Those can carry over to my next setup.

1 hour ago, pby said:

I think the next step for me is to invest in a second strobe and some more arms/floats. Those can carry over to my next setup.

Yes I agree, get a second strobe. then use the money you saved on not buying the camera housing to get out and actually use your camera.

As others have suggested, work on developing your current setup. Strobes can be re-used when you are ready to upgrade later. Consider a bayonet adapter system for your wet lenses for easy changing and consistent alignment.

When you have reached the limits of your current system, a micro 4/3 system or some APS-C systems will also work with your wet lenses, so a much cheaper update than housing an A7 and all the consequent lenses and ports that will involve.

7 minutes ago, JohnLiddiard said:

Consider a bayonet adapter system for your wet lenses for easy changing and consistent alignment.

I recently discovered this and will definitely be adding. Those threads never like to line up properly!

If you haven't already, buy a copy of Alex Mustard's book. Underwater Photography Masterclass. That can make a big difference to your pictures at minimal cost.

Agreed on Alex's book. It could be a big help to you, pby.

Picked up Alex's book and already started reading. A lot of really good suggestions here--thank you! Second strobe should be coming by the end of this week.

Have fun with it!

I also had a G7X that I spent a month with in Indonesia in 2018.  Two Inon S-2000 strobes, shot almost entirely macro, often with the Inon UCL-167 lens.  Got some really amazing photos.  But...  I then got a great deal on a used Olympus EM-1 housing and the difference in image quality and ease of macro photos with the greater working distance and magnification led to my photos being on a new level on the next trip to Bali.

If you are contemplating an upgrade I think you should consider finding a good deal on a used, older micro 4/3 or APS-C mirrorless setup.  Housing your A7RIV will be a huge expense.  Owning the camera seems like it would be a good start to owning the corresponding full UW setup but its only a fraction.

I'd say I agree with the comment about taking pictures when diving or diving to take pictures.   If you're happy with the IQ you're getting along with the memories, stick tight and work on your lighting.  But if you keep wishing for more from your photos, you'll never be happy until you get your best camera underwater.

You'll also have to live with the consequences, which mainly revolve around transporting the rig.   And you'll have less choice on focal lengths, though you'll still have access to special wet lenses that are both horribly expensive AND horribly heavy in some cases.

I went from an RX100 II to a D810 in a year.  I had been shooting a series of Canon point-n-shoots in Canon housings (SD630, SD870is, s95, s120).  I thought the RX100 would solve the autofocus issues, but it did not.  The dual strobes made far more difference than the camera.  After about 30 dives I moved on to a D810, moving the strobes and focus lights.  Bought a 230mm dome port that I'm still using now with a Z9, and a D850 before that.   The D850 solved my autofocus woes.   The D810 solved my dynamic range wishes - I love shooting macro at ISO 64.

Now that the Z9 has been in stock for a while, a lot of people are selling great D850 systems for good prices.   Might jump on one of those.