Vintage M42 lenses for macro? Sharp with bubble bokeh?

Hi folks,

I'm looking at doing something more creative now, on the cheap. Unfortunately, on the cheap rules out Meyer's Trioplan 100mm lens, as they've skyrocketed in price.

However I've been looking at 50mm+ lenses, which may give a wider view but are much more affordable. On top of that, extension tubes can be used to lessen the minimum focus distance.

Here's an example of a Jason Isley's Zeiss Tessar 50mm shot:

Here's an example of Alex Mustard's shot with the Trioplan 100: https://www.nhm.ac.uk/wpy/gallery/2021-bedazzled

Does anyone have recommendations for:

* What vintage lens is affordable but...

* Produces sharp images in the centre fully open (f/2.0 or thereabouts)?

* Produces bubble bokeh, similar to the trioplan 100mm

* Can be easily mounted on a Nikon mount (I use a crop)

* Optional: has swirly bokeh effect as well?

So far I'm down to a select few lenses that may get me started on this journey, but the only one I've found VERY similar to trioplan are the projection lenses, like the diaplan. Unfortunately with the way these get mounted, I'm concerned about them misaligning during dives, and it could be a lot of hassle to convert projector lenses and keep them stable within housings.

Thanks!

You could start off by looking for older triplet lenses. The most famous of these is the 1890s Cooke Triplet which was produced by Taylor, Taylor and Hobson. The problem you will find is that most were built for larger format cameras and have long focal lengths, however some, especially lenses intended for use on stereo cameras are of shorter focal length, and many even earlier lenses have optical flaws which can deliver interesting backgrounds. Central definition can be good but won't be up to modern standards.

The earliest lens I've used underwater is actually an 1865 Grubb (Dublin) Stereo Doublet (~3.5" focal length) ,which delivers surprisingly sharp central definition but falls off rapidly and has 'soft' bokeh and highlight 'bleed'. But these are escalating in price too, especially the stereo copies. If you can find shorter focal length lenses from Victorian times from makers such as Ross, Dallmeyer, etc, then, if cheap enough, they are well worth trying out. Many will use non-standard mounting threads (many are odd imperial threads - the Grubbs use fine Whitworth threads for example), but can be fitted into soft plastic mounting board easily enough and then adapted to whatever mount you use with a bit of ingenuity.

Later lenses are worth trying too and 35mm lenses from the 1930s work well (but many won't easily adapt to a Nikon dSLR as their rear focus is physically too short). You could try looking for (Leica) visoflex fitting lenses though as these should adapt. They will be optically better than Victorian lenses but not perfect.

3 hours ago, Paul Kay said:

You could start off by looking for older triplet lenses.

Thanks Paul, most of my "research" so far has led me down this path. The origins and history of these lenses are also fascinating as you describe, as it's something I'm learning as I go through searching the webs.

There's a few I'm considering including Pentacons, Carl Zeiss Jenas and Takumars. I guess it's hard to find something as sharp wide open as the Trioplan, with the lovely "soapbubble" effect, but I could get started with a cheap M42 lens to try topside, then hone in the technique until I either buy a Trioplan or an equivalent.

Most lenses I've seen so far actually have quite nice bokeh rings, but many struggle to achieve very good sharpness in the centre - or as you say, they wouldn't be up to modern standards. I'm blown away by my 105mm 2.8, but it's modern, and priced fairly. The Trioplan is priced the same as the 105, and is more of a one trick pony in comparison.

I'll get a cheapo lens to experiment with and see what I can come up with!

You could try some Lensbaby len.  Just bought a Lensbaby circular fisheye. I am now in the process of 3d printing a port adapter with4 inch dome.

Hello ,

I like to use underwater the Meyer Golrlitz Oreston  50 mm F1,8  + 8 mm ext tube  on Canon 80D  ( always  fully open  F1,8  sometime with INON UCL67  , manual focus  via  DIY focus ring )

I find  it sharp enough  and  with some  nice effect in background .

Here are some  example :

More photos  in my Flickr gallery :  https://www.flickr.com/photos/paolobl65/albums/72177720301642523/with/52320399593/

hope this can help.

@paolobl65 The harlequin shrimp was very nice, what did you use as a background? And how far away was the background? I presume there's an optimal range in which this has the most profound effect?

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Generally speaking, I have now ordered a:
* Pentacon AV 100mm 2.8 projector lens, retrofitted with focus ring and M42 mount - this is the *exact same* as the Trioplan 100mm.

* Helios 44-2 M42

Hopefully both will give me enough options to play with getting nice effects, whilst also being competition worthy lenses. My main concern is that I get the effect, but the image is so soft it would be unusable in a competition.