New to SCUBA, Help with 10D

As the title suggests, I'm new to SCUBA, and I have a Canon 10D. I'll be using a Canon 20mm WA lens with a URPro CY filter when I go diving with my camera the first time, but I have some questions.

I have been looking around the forums and I keep seeing diopters mentioned, specifically the +4 diopter. The only diopter that I'm aware of on my camera is on the eyepiece.

I've never used add-on diopters before and in fact this site is the first time I've seen such extensive mention of them. Can anyone help me out with this issue? I really don't fancy my shots going all to hell for lack of focusing.

My next concern is "dropping" the camera in the water. I have purchased an Ikelite housing and dome port, so I'm good on housing, but I notice no tether on the housing. Does anyone have any suggestions on attaching a tether to the housing so that I can't "lose" the camera in the water?

I was Open Water certified Cancun in February and the most frustrating part of diving for me at that point was my inability to take my camera with me in the water. I've since corrected that problem, but I want to make sure I'm travelling the right road in terms of additional equipment.

Thanks in advance for your help,

David

Hi David

I can't tell you about the 10D but I well know that out-in-the-blue terror of letting the camera go.

I started by using a coiled lanyard with one end clipped to my BC and one end to the camera housing. I found this worked pretty well. The lanyard could be shortened with a Fastex connector. Dive shops sell them. It just seemed a bit flimsy for my Subal D10 housing.

I've just switched however to using two separate Fastex/caribiner fitted heavy fabric tethers. One end loops through the Ultralight strobe arms - and the caribiner end clips on to D-rings on my BC. In the middle of the tether is a Fastex clip which comes apart easily so that the camera can be "detached" from my BC, But when I need it, the camera is attached with two tethers. It seems to work!

I would never suggest some one new to diving try to dive with a SLR camera. It's just too big to deal with when you dont have the diving part down pat.

Not ony is it a safty hazard to dive with such a big camera, you will also find that your pictures will come out better with a simpler camera because you are going to be too preocupied with the diving half of things to give the thought necessary to get a good picture from a slr.

If you had not allready purchased a housing I would have recommended you buy smaller camera. A p&s camera + housing is still cheaper than a SLR housing so the fact that you allready have the camera isnt a problem.

But since you have allready got the housing i guess I can answer your questions.

Diopters. = close up filter.

If a lens is not capible of focusing less than 2x the port diameter it will not be able to focus in a dome port. Ike ports are 6 inch diameter so if you lenses can not focus as close as 12 inches you will need a diopter or close up filter.

For macro diopters are optional tools to give you more magnification.

You dont mentions strobes but having strobes is much more important than a fancy camera.

As far as attaching the camera to you. Ike housings have two knobs on the bottom of the housing that you can use to attach a lanyard with a keyriing type loop on one end and a clip on the other.

At the risk of sounding a bit preachy and condescending, I will second the motion on brand new divers not using cameras right away. I realize it can be frustrating seeing interesting things underwater and not being able to take pictures of them immediately to show your friends. However, until you have your buoyancy skills honed to a fine level of sharpness (and, I realize, some people pick it up faster than others) I would recommend against taking any camera along on a dive, much less one that requires you to peek through a little hole to frame the picture. I've seen too may divers, even ones with many dives under their weight belts, putting the reef, not to mention themselves, at risk by paying more attention to the camera than their position relative to depth and what is around them.

Now that I'm off my soapbox, I'll be curious to know how your pictures with the red filter turn out when you get the camera into the water.

I've not gotten the hundreds of dives under my belt that Mike and acroporas sound like they have, but I'm not intending on going to the expense of buying a smaller camera and a housing for the tradeoff of the issues of shutter delay and sensor lag.

The reason that I went for the SLR above water was as simple as the reason that I won't go for a P&S below water - I can't get the on-demand response from lesser digitals that I can get wth an SLR.

Perhaps you're right and I do need to work on my bouyancy control some first, I'll take that under advisement before I put the camera in the water with me. With upcoming R&R's I should have between 32 and 50 dives under my belt by October. Will that be enough that I don't have much more to worry about?

Yep - if you get get 50 dives in - in varying conditions - then you should be able to get your buoyancy and task loading worked out. That's my opinion at least - and of course it will vary from person to person.

Cheers

James

Apologies for the tone of my response. I was a bit frustrated.

I understand the concern with protecting the reefs and natural environs, but I'm no slouch with my SLR. I'm a fast shooting photographer above water and I don't intend on taking serious closeups at reefs or other sites until I've mastered handling of the camera underwater.

On another note....I know that PADI offers the National Geographic Diver program, but are there any other conservation diving programs that are offered?

I'm a PADI Open Water diver as of this past February (with 10 dives from the same vacation woohoo!) and I'm interested in the conservation side of diving.

Another question is: Do I have to stick with PADI for everything now that I've started with them or will they all mix and match....has anyone tried?

I like to make an orientation dive at the destination without the camera so I can get used to everything again and get back into the diving groove. Then I'll take the camera out for the other dives. It just seems to help to have a camera-less "practice" dive. You'll find yourself paying attention to the water conditions & clarity, dive boat protocols, dive master tendencies, and thinking through what you might be looking for should you have a camera on you the next time.

Just my $.02,

Ken

It isnt just to stop you from damaging the environment. But it is a considerable risk to damaging yourself and your equipment.

First air consumption. Most beginner divers eat up air like crazy. How long does your tank last you? Most people start of lasting about 30-40 minutes on a tank. Expect the extra drag from pusing a big camera to reduce that by up to 40%. Thus your air may only last 20 minutes. If you do 5 minutes down and 5 minutes up you may only have 10 minutes of picture/dive time. With everything new and exciting the chance of you exceding your 10 minutes and running out of air is very high.

Like everything else, air consumption is different for everyone but I would recomend you wait untill a tank lasts at least an hour before you consider bringing the camera.

Next is you must learn to do all the skills you learned in your open water class with one less hand. For example. The currnet is somewhat strong so you must hold on to the anchor line during descent. How do you plan to clear your ears, hold your camera, and hold the anchor line at the same time? 3 hands would be very usefull. If you let go of the anchor line for even a second you will be swept off to sea.

Do you think you would be able to put your mask on with one hand?

And then finding your equipment. It is very important in diving in general to be able to find each piece of equipment very quickly without looking because it is impossible to see your chest where all your gear lives (BC controler, console, weightbelt, octopus, BC clips, BC pockets, ect). Now adding a big camera, doubbles the ammount of gear you must keep track of and now you only have one hand to find it all.

I do like kens suggestion that you make sure you are listening to the Dive Briefing. I am often use the dive breefing time to make sure the camera is together right and working as it should. This is not a good idea as dive briefings are quite important to help you know what to exped down there.

I have met divers with 10 dives who were much more in control than divers with 50 so of course how long it takes you to get the diving part of things under control is something you will have to find out for yourself. You may allready be there or it could take you more than 50 dives to figure it out.

It takes most people years to get up to 50 dives. Thus my suggestion to get a small camera that you can handle now rather than no camera. But if you are willing/able to wait untill you have the diving half rock solid I'm sure you will love diving with your 10D. I hope you can see we arent trying to be condesending to you as a new diver but are trying to help you become a good diver and good underwater photograper. But you must do it in that order.

RE: Fast shooting above water != fast shooting underwater.(!= means not equal) Have you ever tryed to take a picture of a rabbit, Squirrel or similar sized animal with a 20mm lens before? Thats what your going to be trying to do under water. If you want a fish to show up in your pictures you are going to have to be at most 2 feet away from it. You dont do anything fast while diving. Hopefully thats something your instructor stressed. The same holds for shooting. If you want a picture of a fish you are going to have to slowly stalk it or it will swim off.

RE: Dive certifications.

No you do not have to stick with PADI. Dive instructors like money and will not turn down a paying customer even if their last course was from a different company. You will find that different companys use different tables and have different guidelines so it will be more work on your part to learn 2 sets of guidelines but that is the only issue.

I dont know anything about dive conservaton programs.

First air consumption: You're right on the air. My first 5 dives were painfully short but by dive 6 I was in control of my breathing. By dive 10 I was in the water for 45 minutes at 65 feet - a lot better progress.

I hadn't thought about learning all of the skills one handed, but I'll definitely work on that in October. As far as descending along a line, the obvious thing there is to tether the camera so that I can have both hands free for descent. Clearing my ears isn't a problem for me though. I can just wiggle my jaw and I'm good to go - really convenient actually.

All of your equipment locating points are extremely valid and I'll definitely merit some practice BEFORE getting into the water with the camera.

Since I get vacation 6 weeks a year, with my current employer, and I'm planning on diving during all vacations, 50 dives won't be a problem. My next R&R I'm hoping to get in between 18 and 27 dives and I'll still have 2 more weeks of dive vacation available in October.

I hope you can see we arent trying to be condesending to you as a new diver but are trying to help you become a good diver and good underwater photograper. But you must do it in that order.

I know you weren't meaning to be condescending, that's the reason that I posted the apology later in the thread. I agree that I have to be good at both, not just one.

You will find that different companys use different tables and have different guidelines so it will be more work on your part to learn 2 sets of guidelines but that is the only issue.

I hadn't thought of different tables from different companies, but that's an excellent point and I suppose that keeps me diving with PADI. I don't see a reason to mix and match when that doesn't allow for things to remain consistent.

Excellent thread guys - I really like the way this one is turning out. Very positive. William - great explanation.

Cheers

James

Hi David,

firstly welcome to the world of Scuba Diving - it's great isn't it.

I would just add to the comments already made re new divers taking photos. I'll just add my experience of diving with a brand new SLR housing:

I have been diving for a few years and I have no problems with bouyancy, breathing etc etc etc. I have also been using a compact camera for the last two years and been getting used to the demands of taking photos underwater. This last weekend I decided to try out the new Housing / camera kit (Nikon d70 in the Nexus Housing) and I was amazed at the difference compared to diving the compact. I found that I was far far more engrossed in the photo part and trying to nail nudibranchs with a macro lens in a slight swell whilst maintaining bouyancy was a real challenge. I found that when the mask was against the viewfinder I was commited to the picture and the diving skill was secondary (althouh not ignored) - with the compact you can 'sit back' from the camera as you use the LCD Screen and so more aware of whats going on around you.

My advice would be as said before - get some diving in first then start with a more simple set-up to learn "The way of the underwater photographer" - it can be a difficult way and it will test your diving skills. Then, take in your beast and get used to that. You can always keep the compact as a backup - remember when you dive an SLR you are committed to one lens per dive - the compact backup will mean you don't lose the opportunity to snap the image that your SLR / Lens choice can't. And cameras like the Fuji F810 don't seem to suffer the long lag times of previous compact digicams.

Whatever you choose, you will love it, I promise you.

Hi David

Without wishing to over-state points which have already been well-made, I too would suggest a little caution at using a chunky SLR early on in your diving. There is no doubt that photography can overwhelm attention to diving - and SLRs are not easy to use underwater. Dive skills need to be automatic reflexes to give you the space to learn to use the camera. Otherwise there is a real risk of task over-loading which can lead to serious problems.

As a PADI IDC Staff Instructor the last thing I would ever want to do is temper someone's enthusiasm too much. But a couple of suggestions, if you will forgive me, try out your SLR in a pool first to to check how comfortable you are handling it and using your dive skills at the same time; and for the first open water dive or two, why not use a a dive site with a nice bottom to it! One you can see and one which is in a relatively safe depth, say 20'-30' feet - maybe not a 2000' drop down the wall eh?

How about a PADI Underwater Photography Speciality? That will achieve all of the above for you. (Excuse the advertising pitch!)

The most important thing is to have fun - and get you - and the camera - back to the beach.

And welcome aboard mate - a ton of fun lies ahead.

New to diving and group and did a search and came upon this thread. An hour? Sitting on bench a full breath changed my cylinder pressure by 5 psi. (VT Pro) at 18 bpm I'd need 5,400 psi at surface. I don't think I am going to see and hour at any depth on one tank. So what is a better rule of thumb for knowing when you have buoyancy under control? Why is underwater photography offered as Advanced Open Water specialty?

Reason for search was tethering camera to BCD. That coil did look very flimsy to be attached to an Ikelite Digital Rebel housing and DS-125 strobe!!!

I can easily do 90 minutes in 40' of water on one al80 tank. I believe photography is an "advanced" skill, because you must have your other skills TOTALLY down pat first. i.e. buoyancy, navigation, etc. You should be to the point where you are not thinking about your life support constantly (or much at all) before you start devoting attention to your camera.

If you don't like the plastic coil lanyards, you may want to try a simple piece of nylon rope with a clip on each end. It doesn't have to be too long, in fact, I hate the long ones as the housing hangs down and can bang on the reef.

Cheers

James

I was planning on making a custom set-up. Two D-rings around tray one on each side of camera with cord connecting two rings by bowline knots. Attach snap, or recommended type of shackle to cord/ring. Have cord of _x_ length to similar shackle to attach to BCD. Will probably use lower left D-ring on BCD.

Being nicknamed "scientist" I am picking up buoyancy control very fast.

As for tether: I've started using a "leash", bought in a surfshop. Surfleashes are designed to be quite strong, withstand saltwater, and they are easy to attach, both to the camera and your wrist (or whereever). Just a suggestion, it works for me.

I have been using the coil type lanyard for years and never had a problem. The camera setup will only be a pound or two negative in the water

Mike