jjmochi

Thank you so much for this!!! Looks like I can avoid getting new ports! I already have the 30mm N100 extension from when I used WACP-C, and have adapted over to use w my new canon 8-15 setup. So I can reuse all my ports and only need to buy the new lens itself it sounds like. Great to hear this setup can work w all the Nauticam wet lenses (of which I have all).

I upgraded from a pair of Inon Z330s and dove with the Retra Pro Max IIs for 2.5 weeks last month, going on a Banda sea live aboard from Ambon to Alor and spending another week in Alor afterwards. It has not been without mishaps but figured I share some photos and overall experience. First, I am not a professional, I certainly do not need strobes this good or expensive, it was the biggest splurge purchase I've made since upgrading my body from A7C to A7R5. But I've had my Inons for >6 years, and I kept being told upgrading the "quality of my light" was going to make the biggest impact more than any lens or body. So when the Pro Max IIs came out, I saw it was way more powerful than the Pro Max, watched Alex Mustard's review, had it in my cart for several weeks w the early bird offer before finally pulling the trigger. 'Buy once, cry once' as they say. I felt like the Inons had served me well and was not really looking for more power. The biggest upgrades I was looking forward to was 1) less hot spots compared to the Inons, which I gathered from reviews would be the case based on Retra's "softer, more diffuse light", and 2) HSS. I had to upgrade my trigger as well for the HSS. I didn't know it at purchase because Retra did not give a GN for me to compare to the Inon's 33GN but the Retras did turn out to be much more powerful. Inons I frequently shot at close to full power (-1 and -2), Retras I mostly shot between half and 3/4 power. Was it worth the $$$ upgrade? I'm still debating. For a professional of course, for a hobbyist I'm not sure. FWIW I paid S$5190 for 2 Retra Pro Max IIs including import duty to SG, and I am selling my 2 old Inon Z330s for S$800. So 6x more for the Retras vs decent second hand strobes now, and still almost 3x more compared to what I paid 6 years ago for new Inons. Quality of light - yes there is a difference. But is there a meaningful difference in the final product? I don't know, you tell me. For sure the photos straight out of the camera looks better with the Retras. But I feel like the hotspots from Inon could be fixed with masking in Lightroom quite easily and especially now that the AI object detect has gotten so good. I feel like to a normal person (like my husband and friends) they would not be able to tell the difference at all. For example if you take these very similar destinations in Indonesia, can you really tell a noticeable difference in quality of light? Retra Pro Max IIs: https://joannaphotography38.pixieset.com/banda/, https://joannaphotography38.pixieset.com/alor/ Inon Z330s: https://joannaphotography38.pixieset.com/halmahera/, https://joannaphotography38.pixieset.com/raja2024/, as well as all older albums Ease of use - this is somewhat related to the quality of light. With Retras there is a big improvement in my overall hit rate of decent, properly lit shots. With Inons maybe I need to try 3-4 times to adjust the lights to get the perfect lighting, with the Retras it is much more forgiving and I may need to adjust just once. It's not a big deal for no current sites where you can take your time but for big drifts where you only get 1-2 chances before you get swept away that is a big difference. But again for final product / what I keep does it really matter if I choose 200 photos out of 2000 or 200 out of 1000. Recycle - couldn't test this due to my 4yr old batteries. Will have to see how they fare with a fresh set. One thing they should make super clear is you need fresh / new batteries! They recommended a fresh set EVERY YEAR. HSS - this did undeniably give more flexibility and functionality over the Inons. In places where I go to dive (Indonesia) often the prettiest reefs are on the top 5-10m. Before I could get some sunbursts with 100 ISO, 1/250, Inons on full power, but the foreground was not well lit. With the Retras & HSS I could keep ISO at 320-400, crank up shutter to 1/1600, keep the Retras at just over half power (19 on the dial was usually enough) with much faster recycle, and the balance of light was much better. Coverage - very impressive! I was down to one strobe for a day and could still take some decent coral / reef shots with just one strobe. I could not do this with the Inons. For example: https://joannaphotography38.pixieset.com/banda/?pid=16748778125&id=22&h=MjY5MDI2Njk3Ng, https://joannaphotography38.pixieset.com/banda/?pid=16748778184&id=24&h=NDE4NTAxNjk3Nwm Sometimes I would get a dark spot in the middle with the Inons but I did not have this problem with the Retras. I cannot quantify it but my gut feel is the coverage is much better on the Retras. Which goes back to the ease of use as I don't have the adjust the Retras nearly as much as the Inons and with the Inons I was still getting much more ugly middle dark spot / hotspots on the edges. Reliability and customer service - unfortunately I experienced quite a few issues at the beginning of the trip. Both strobes worked fine the first day, then both died one after the other on the second day. Folks here tried to help me troubleshoot and I ultimately got in touch with Retra who was outstanding in trying to help me while on my trip. Responsive on email on a Sunday, helped me recalibrate both strobes, looked into sending me a replacement while onsite (not possible as I was on liveaboard), and took both strobes back for inspection after I got home. Customer service was 10/10. They said perhaps vibrations during transport may have resulted in the initial miscalibration, both strobes were in carryon backpack with me, it was not the smoothest landing by Garuda on the flight in so perhaps that was the cause? After inspection they also found a small manufacturing defect for the pilot light button that resulted in it being stuck on one strobe and offered credit for this which I used towards a LSD snoot. So great service but be aware you may need to baby them more than usual. And as my batteries were 4 yr old it was causing slower recycle and some reliability issues when used in 4x AA configuration, but was more stable in 8x AA with the booster and thankfully lasted the whole trip without further issues after recalibration. Anyways, thanks again for all those who helped trying to troubleshoot during my trip and hope this helps others debating this upgrade.

And I think half power on the Retras is about equivalent to dial 2 on the Inons (where half is 3), so noticeably stronger. I shot mostly at half or below, only a few shots at 3/4 power.

I managed to fix both for now I have to say Retra CS is really good - they've been very responsive and even looked into sending me a replacement on location (but not possible as I am on liveaboard then going to Alor which is too remote and will take 10 days). And they said they are happy to take it back once I get home to double check everything. They said the initial misfire issues were probably due to vibration or shocks during transport. I'm guessing maybe during the shipping process as I've hand carried them in a padded camera backpack with dividers along with all my lenses and really babied it when coming on the trip. But that's been fixed by the CAL procedure. They've also diagnosed that my uwtechnics trigger was incorrectly set to TTL (dial to 7) instead of manual (dial to 0). It was installed for me when I bought it. So that's been eating up more battery and would explain the slower recycles >>> The behavior you describe indicates that the camera or trigger board is set to TTL while the strobe is set to M. In this situation, the strobe becomes a passenger in the process and will emit multiple flashes rather than a single manual flash. This causes much higher energy consumption, longer recycle times, and a weaker main pulse, which is why your image appears dark. And finally they said to replace the (2021) batteries and to use it in 8x AA with booster for more stable performance for now. Successful day 3 of diving with no strobe issues - very glad to have it in time for snake island Manuk! I do notice the quality of light is much softer and less harsh compared to my old Inons. Hopefully tomorrow with the trigger setting fixed I will also notice faster recycle. Today we did 4 dives and I used booster, battery still shows half full by the end of the day.

Retra service is quite helpful, responsive on a sunday I managed to solve the second strobe that stopped working with their instructions. CAL 2x and it works again. No issues on the 4th dive... hopefully stays that way The first strobe that stopped working - I almost gave up. Tried every which way to CAL. It would not CAL. tick tick tick tick sounds but no flash. I tried with the booster, without the booster, and finally since everyone said batteries I took out the first 4 batteries on the bottom and inserted only the top 4 batteries, and it CAL'ed!! Did CAL 2x. It's working on land now but we'll have to see tomorrow once we go in the water. Fingers crossed! I'm hoping it's just one bad battery amongst those 4... which would explain why it was working yesterday when I did not use the boosters and not working today. The batteries are all mixed up tho and I have no idea which 8 of the 16 I used yesterday. Also wondering if it's the chargers, I am using 2 4 bay chargers that came with the Retras and my old 8 bay charger (also EBL) that plugs directly into the outlet. Those 4 bottom batteries are now quarantined and I will be ordering new ones when I get back.

Retra is replying to me which is good I managed to fix the right one that stopped working on the afternoon dive. CAL twice did the trick. Left one still waiting on them for more instructions. Repeated CAL 6-7x with no luck. CAL doesn’t do CAL. Batteries definitely inserted correctly, and I swapped the batteries between the right and left strobe so I don’t think it’s the batteries

Dive 3 of the day - went down with the one working strobe. Actually got pretty decent photos with only 1 strobe - but it stopped working 35min into the dive!!! I'm at a loss for words. For sure it's not user error this time. Right strobe did not run empty yesterday, I changed no settings from the first 35min when it was working to when it suddenly decided to stop working. Was only using it at half power to one stop past half power... It did not show any error messages. Turning it off and batt test again showed 3/4 bars. Did not overheat, did not get wet or flood, I can still hear the beep when I hit the shutter but it just doesn't fire. Exact same symptoms as the left strobe. Somehow I got it to fire ONCE after it decided to stop working but could not make it stayed dead after. So one strobe is dead after 3 dives, the other dead after 5 dives. No floods, no moisture, no error messages, just not firing. And I'm day 2 into a 2.5 week trip with no strobes. I have not heard of any reliability issues with the Retras and everything talks about them like they're the highest quality and it did not even occur to me to bring my old Inons as backup. I sent Retra help an email but I'm not hopeful

I spoke too soon. Non working strobe remains non working on dive 2. I turned off wireless flash setting on Sony and was able to get it to fire during the surface interval. But once I got underwater it refused to fire. And the working strobe also refused to fire until I turned the wireless flash setting back on. Back on the boat I have swapped the fiber optic cables, the batteries from working to non working strobe. Tried with and without the booster since it worked yesterday without the booster. Tried to put it in calibration mode and it shows CAL but the strobe does not fire. I am beginning to question whether it’s just user error or really dead at this point. There is no water or any visible damage to it. What else can I try?

And I cannot seem to connect the strobes to the Retra app. Strobe shows BLE running but my phone/app cannot find it. This is both strobes... For the $$$$ of these strobes I am having way more issues than I should!

So testing again on the boat the non-working strobe is working again. I changed nothing. And I'm also noticing when I switch on the strobe to BATT/TEST, it will sometimes show CHG (despite full batteries), and if I turn it off again and turn on again it will show the battery icon with all 4 bars. Prob it's user error but I'm not sure why this would be. I'm using envelop pros - a few years old but was working fine on the Inons...

Thanks all. I have a more pressing issue now where my left strobe (the same one that ran out of power yesterday) would not fire at all on this morning's dive. Used both with booster, battery check shows full. Other strobe fires fine so it's not the trigger Tried changing the fibre optics cables around and the one connected with the non-working strobe works with the working strobe so it's not the cable. I have tried the non-working strobe on manual - at half power, full power, quarter power, can't get it to fire at all Have tried turning it on and off a few times No water or leak alarm What else can I try?? What could it be?? Could I have damaged it yesterday when it showed battery empty but I turned it off and on again and got a few more flashes out of it? That being said I was quite impressed with what my singular strobe could still do in the direct 12' position - seems coverage is wider and less hot spots compared to the Inon. Yes I think HSS killed my battery yesterday. Most of one dive was on HSS I will look into the quick release arm for the snoot, that sounds ideal

Lots of new gear, lots of questions I recently upgraded my SMC-1 to SMC-3, and bought a MFO-1. Bought the AOI double flip. But shortly before my trip I discovered there is now also MFO-3 out and couldn't resist. So now I have 3 macro wet lenses and only a double flip My camera guy says Saga makes a triple flip and he can order it for me but doesn't recommend it. I put MFO-3 and SMC-3 on for 1 dive today and MFO-3 and MFO-1 on for the other 2 dives, found it pretty tight with strobe positioning already, so he's probably right. Is my only option to go to a bayonet? I much much prefer flips. Just wondering how others are bringing more than 2 underwater. I thought maybe I would ditch the MFO-1 but liked it too much and now I want to bring all 3 on every dive. I tried changing the lens underwater (threading into the flip) and found it too cumbersome to be worth the effort for most of the critters I saw. What's the best way to bring all 3? it feels like MFO-3 would protrude out too much even if I move to bayonet and mount it on the float arms? Also does anyone else find the switch from SMC-1 to SMC-3 hard to adjust to? I keep misjudging the working distance. Hopefully I get used to it soon. thank you

Thank you everyone! Very helpful. First day in the water with the new strobes and a few more questions in bold. I made my first 3 dives today with the new strobes. All in Ambon so only muck, and didn't notice a difference in quality of light vs my old Inons. But I'm sure I will notice (I hope) tomorrow when we get to Banda and move to wide angle for the bulk of the trip. I used the strobes without booster as my macro rig is perfectly neutral without booster (and wide angle is neutral with the booster). It lasted almost 3 dives, 70min each, 372 photos total. One strobe still showed one bar of battery and the other died towards the end of the 3rd dive. But when I switched it off and on again, managed to squeeze a few more in but it was not always consistently firing. So I guess must change after 2 dives if not using booster, and maybe / maybe not can last the whole day / 4 dives with the booster. My old Inons could last almost 4 dives but definitely at least 3 so this seems like it's worse. It did tell me CHG after the 2nd dive but I thought the battery must surely be better than the Inons and didn't listen lol. I had HSS on for quite a while as was playing with it, does that chew up more battery? I didn't find HSS that helpful in muck as everything was sand background and not much open water. I just remembered reading the A1 review a few years ago where they said HSS can almost replace a snoot since you can shoot up to 1/400 for a black background, but almost everything we found today was not in the right position and I did wish I had my snoot. Still, would be nice to have for the sunballs. How does the power markings on the Retras compare to the power markings on the Inons? I don't really understand Retra's power markings. Is half power 0 / 6, or is it 50 / +3? Not looking for a precise answer but more a gut feel / rule of thumb. I mostly shoot wide angle with Inon Z330s set to 2-3, sometimes increase to 1 if really wide. 3 was half power on the Inons, should I start at half power on the Retra which would be the 0 marking? I know how much light I want if I had my Inons but feel a bit lost with the Retras, like I lost my gut feel for how much light I need. I did notice SLOWER recycle compared to my Inons? This is without the booster. I was turning the dial to the same % as what I used to do on my Inons (so with the understanding that half = 0 / 6). Was I shooting way too high power for what I understood the same setting to be? I was at the same aperture and ISOs tho and the pictures weren't blown out. I also notice the colour straight out of the camera is a lot more warm (yellow/orange-ish) compared to the Inons. I suppose I need to change my white balance settings. What do other Sony users set theirs at? It sounds like lots of recommendation for the reduction ring and LSD snoot. If you can share the 3D files that would be amazing! For the snoot, I currently use a backscatter MF1 with optical snoot, which my guide carries and points it for me (the privilege of having affordable private guides in Asia) Is it a big difference for LSD snoot vs the mini flash? Would it be harder for a guide to point the LSD snoot for you since it's attached to the camera rig?

Hi all I have recently upgraded my Inon Z330s (the only strobes I've shot with) to a pair of Retra Pro Max IIs and am about to take it on my first trip. Banda Sea + Alor! Hoping some Retra users can help me answer these basic questions: For wide angle, 1) should I always just use the booster? In case I need faster burst? Does the battery last the whole day (4 dives) if I use the booster? 2) is HSS ever useful in wide angle? I mostly know of its application to create black backgrounds for macro. I heard it limits burst? 3) to use HSS, you enable wireless flash in the camera. Can I just leave this setting always on, even if not using HSS? Or should I adjust this every time I switch between Manual and HSS? For macro, 1) is there ever any use cases for the booster? 2) same question for HSS and wireless flash settings - should I always shoot in HSS mode since you can still shoot slower than 1/250 i.e. with the same shutter speeds as in Manual? Other: 1) it says there is a leak test, but when I turn the strobe on it only shows battery test. Where is the leak signal? 2) what accessories do I really need? In terms of diffusers, bumpers, etc? I'm a bit overwhelmed by the sheer amount of accessories available. I used to shoot my Inons with diffusers but none came with the Retras. I also had to upgrade from my Nauticam flash trigger to the UWTechnic one for HSS. 1) How do I tell how much battery is left in the trigger, will it show a low battery warning? Thank you!

I'm selling my 2 Inon Z330s as recently upgraded to Retro Pro Max II. PM if interested!

Hmm I only have ~30k photos in my catalogue. But my previews file is 66gb. I guess it's mostly from the smart preview files.

Thanks Chris. I have 2 computers - MacBook Pro which I prefer (better screen, easier workflow, can edit on trips etc) and a windows desktop at home (gaming desktop, should be very powerful but for some reason LR/PS is not much faster). I just got Backscatter xterminator and it was quite slow on my laptop hence I was playing around with swapping the catalog over to my desktop for hopefully faster edit. I've now discovered that every time I run backscatter xterminator, PS turns a 80mb ARW file into a 1.3GB TIF file! Surely that can't be right? How large are your tif files? I think I get what you mean - it's similar to what I'm doing except the master catalog lives on my laptop instead of the external hard drive. I went through and deleted all my old backups - for reason my current catalog lived in one of the backup folders, took a while to sort out but now I got back ~30gb... Deleted all my old full size jpeg exports which already went into iCloud Photos and got back another 40gb...

Hi I'm using a Macbook Pro with 1TB of internal storage. I don't have much movies or other stuff on it. Currently my workflow is to upload all the photos from a trip into LR, delete any not in focus/bad photos, end up with ~1000 raw files for a 1 week trip that I want to keep. From that 1000 I then pick ~200 to edit and export. Once I'm done editing the 200 photos from that trip I build smart previews for all 1000 photos, and move the original raw files for all 1000 into an external hard drive, keeping only the smart previews on my internal storage. So this has worked well for me when I had my A7C but is becoming a problem after a few trips with my A7R5 due to the sheer size of the files. I have ~20 trips worth of smart previews on my laptop + 1-2 trips of original raw files (=160GB) + 2000 raw files of my baby (=90GB) that I haven't gotten to editing yet and it's running out of storage. The raw files only add up to 250GB. Lightroom folder itself is 100GB. Everything is in one catalog and it has backups going to 2022. The problem is I cannot find where the 100GB is coming from, each file I can see is only maybe 0.5GB at most. It's also gotten quite slow but I don't know where the bloat is? Is there a more efficient way of doing this? Should I be creating separate catalogues for each trip (I do like having everything in one place tho)? How do I go about cleaning this up? Thanks!

Hi all, I'm looking to upgrade my first and only pair of strobes, a set of Z330s. With the Retra Pro Max II about to come out, if any existing owners of the original Pro Max is looking for an excuse to upgrade, let me know! Price difference between Pro Max vs Pro Max II is only $170 on Retra website so I am looking for a meaningful discount on the original Pro Max, otherwise I would just pay a bit more and get the Pro Max II directly. Also looking for an Retra LSD snoot + a Sony flash trigger for Nauticam housing that can do HSS. I am based in Singapore but my parents are in Canada (for NA sellers) and my husband also go on frequent work trips to Germany (for EU sellers) so can arrange delivery for either of the 2 also if easier. Thanks!

Thanks all! Managed to get my hands on a metabones v5 and it works. Was able to reuse my 30mm N100 extension from WACP setup. So it's 30mm extension > N120 adapter > 25mm N120 extension > 140mm glass dome. My camera guy was able to 3D print me a zoom gear which lines up nicely with the N120 adapter zoom knob.

So I went to buy the Sony 2X TC and the Canon 8-15 today, and it does NOT fit with my metabones. The protruding part of the Sony TC cannot fit into the metabones. I think i have the mk4 and have to track down a mk5

Ahh ok thank you! They don't have the pro version here it seems. And shipping from the US would not be much cheaper. So Sony it is! Can you link me to the 3D parts? I'm not sure where to look. So this means if I go Housing > N100-120 adapter > 60mm extension > 140mm glass dome, I can use the Nauticam zoom gear as is but turning it with the knob on the adapter? But is that accounting for metabones or for native canon? It seems the Sony TC is 40mm so may not line up nicely if I put my existing 30mm N100 extension in front of the N100-120 adapter.

Thanks everyone and apologies for the belated reply. I spent a week after my Halmahera trip diving Lembeh and just got back home 2 weeks ago, and am now finally starting to process/look through the photos from the trip. So upon a bit of deliberation I think my top priority is to get wider reach than WACP-C but still maintaining most of the range. The narrower end I rarely have any great keepers from, it's more hey I saw a Denise pygmy on a WACP-C dive and can get a decent image to remember I saw it. Weight and IQ are second order considerations. Cost is a third order consideration. So with all of the above feedback I am now debating between 1) 8-15mm w 2x TC, vs 2) FCP For 2x TC, is there consensus on whether the Sony vs the new kenko is better? Looking through the linked threads it seems people have had good results with both. I am leaning towards Sony since I figure I can also use it with my 100-400mm Sony GM lens on safari (which is my next trip). First, are these the right models? Sony being almost 3x $ the Kenko? Kenko https://www.cathayphoto.com.sg/photo-video-accessories/lens-accessories/kenko-teleplus-hd-2x-dgx-teleconverter-for-canon-ef?srsltid=AfmBOopZSBgVI8ij29OVpu6QfMHCts-RfpVsjWH0zgVW5uYvOhuE5KCg Sony https://www.cathayphoto.com.sg/cameras/lenses/sony-fe-2x-teleconverter Would the correct set up be A7R5 > Sony TC > Metabones > Canon 8-15? Vs A7R5 > metabones > Kenko TC > Canon 8-15? but kenko TC (since it specifies for Canon EF) being unable to use w Sony 100-400? For the dome, I see 140mm glass dome but also a reference to Zen 100. The 2 seems to be around the same price. Is the advantage of the ZEN only weight? At the cost of slightly better IQ of the 140mm glass dome? Lastly, would the extension needed be N100-120 adapter + 30mm extension? I'm unsure whether the zoom gear will work since the 8-15 will be behind at minimum a TC and maybe a TC+metabones? And can I reuse my existing 30mm N100 extension that I'm using with the WACP-C? So would it be housing > 30mm N100 extension > N100-120 adapter > 140mm glass dome? I'm actually not super concerned about IQ. So just trying to work out exact set up for 8-15mm so I can make a comparison of cost/weight against FCP. Seems like the 8-15mm set up will be ~3k cheaper and 1.5kg lighter. I also want to get the new SMC-3 and MFO-1 as well as a used EMWL so if I'm only losing the 68-85 degree range with the 8-15 vs FCP and IQ is pretty comparable I think the choice is clear.

Hi all As always, every time I go on another dive trip, I find the urge to change something in my setup. I currently shoot w Sony A7R5 in Nautical housing - for wide angle I use the kit 28-60mm lens w Nautical WACP-C. I am mostly very happy but find myself constantly struggling with the weight and going over the 10kg hand carry limit (w only WACP-C, camera, lenses, macro port, and SMC-1). On my current trip to Halmahera I also found it not wide enough to capture the big schools of barracuda and jacks in Tifore - cannot get close enough for strobes to light while still capturing the full ball in the frame. I previously used the 28-60mm w WWL-1B, and before that with the MWL-1, and before that had a Nikon APS-C which I used w Tokina 10-17mm and 4.33m mini dome. I find myself missing the 150 degree effect fov of the MWL-1 and the Tokina, and really miss the light weight of the Tokina set up. I sold the MWL-1 because I wasn't happy w the image quality, everything had a distorted feel to it especially in the corners. So upon doing some research, I have stumbled upon the Canon 8-15mm fisheye in either 140mm glass dome or the 4.33" mini dome as another option. I already have the metabones V adapter and the 30mm extension, so would need to buy the lens, N100-120 port adapter, new zoom ring, and one of the domes. On the other hand I can sell my 28-60, the zoom ring, and the WACP-C -> so net net I don't think it will be a big cash outlay. I have a few questions: 1) will changing to this be a dent on image quality? 2) is the mini dome viable and a decent option? Primary consideration is the weight savings. However I do see the 140mm glass dome recommended more. 3) what is the equivalent field of view at the 15mm end? can I still get normal rectilinear wide angle shots? I know the 8mm end is a full circular fish eye. 4) anything else I should consider? Many thanks!

Hi all I’ve been tempted by the EMWL for a while and recently found someone selling a second hand set w the 100 degree objective. I shoot a Sony A7R5 w the standard 90mm macro and the Nauticam 40 degree VF. The A7R5 has the ability to invert the LCD but not the viewfinder. I’m struggling to decide: 1) whether I really need the relay lens or not? I can shoot w camera inverted LCD and save some money on the relay. But I can’t seem to find much info on using it this way. Or with the EVF can you ever get used to shooting it upside down? 2) should I save on the second hand 100 or go straight for a new 160? If money is not a consideration my preference would be the 160. But the 160 is $2000+ more than the second hand 100 and I find myself going back and forth between just splurging for the 160 and thinking the 100 would be good enough. Does anyone have both and can comment on their experience? thanks!