Pair of DS-125s or DS-50s?

Brand new to UW still photography. This has probably been discussed a million times before, but I searched a ways back and didn't see an applicable answer.

I'm gearing up with the 5d, Ike housing, 100mm macro lense (for now), eTTL sync cord, and a pair of ike strobes. I could see going to an equivalent of the Nikon 17-85 lense eventually, dunno - the 17-40 is the only other possibly "housable" lense I own. I'm not much into fish photos - macro or WA underwater garden type shots appeal to me the most.

I usually dive in Southern California, in the Channel Islands, and I like macro (super macro really - nudibranch faces) the best. I don't really have a wideangle friendly trip anywhere on the horizon.

I see some advantages and disadvantages to both systems, listed below. Interested to know which ones you chose, and, if you chose the 50s, do you wish you had the 125s now? (200s are out of my price range).

Advantages of 50s: small, light, compact, AA batteries, longer battery life, don't have to buy extra chargers, more focused beam for macro, 10 power settings (would I ever need that?).

Advantages of 125s: Battery life guage (huge bonus?), more power, faster recycle time (by alot).

The DS-50 seems to have a 5700k temp, putting it close to daylight, while the 125 has a 4800K temp, making it much warmer (too warm?). Which temp is better for macro in murky water? The 5d does have a temp setting on WB, so I guess I would just dial in the appropriate number??

Anyway, sorry this is so long. Which pair of strobes do you all think I would like best?

The DS-50 only offers 10 power settings with a manual controller purchased separately. Even so, it's still a fair bit cheaper than the DS125.

Having used both strobes, I'd certainly recommend the DS-125 versus the DS50 for it's faster recycling time, higher power output, and battery gauge.

Also, should you change your mind about WA in a year or 2, or upgrade your camera to a DSLR, the DS125 will still be usable, but the DS50 may be limited then...

I've never used both strobes underwater, but got two DS-125 which I will use on my next trip.

From the specs, I agree with you that the DS-50 would work fine for macro stuff as you don’t require wide beam angles. The cold colour temperature is fine for macro too. But if you will do wideangle stuff somewhere in the future, it would be unpleasant to sell them again and get two DS-125 anyway.

DS-125’s warm colour temperature is no problem for macro work as you can equalize it with white balance. And maybe you would enjoy the fast recycle time for macro as well?

Personally, I prefer two strobes as well. But if you want to spend less money initially, you could consider one DS-125 instead of two DS-50 strobes and add a second one later.

Julian

Matt, is there an issue for dslr that would make the 125 more compatible? (The 5d is a dslr . . .) And, good to hear that the faster recycling time is soemthing that is important when you're in the moment - it's hard for me to gauge what things are going to drive me crazy. ;-)

And Jolly, thanks for your reply too! Good to hear that the warm color temp is ok.

Thanks!

I guess I should have elaborated in my fisrt reply...

The reason I mentioned the DS125 would be better with DSLR cameras, is that with a compact camera, the range of apertures is typically limited to F8, but with a DSLR, you can go to F22 or lower. That's where you'll need more power to light up your subject properly...

Ah, I see what you mean. If I'm shooting at f22 or smaller, esp in macro for high depth of field, maybe I will need more rather than less power. Hmm. Between the extra cost for the strobes, plus the $100 battery charger, the 125s are about $500 more than the 50s.

Maybe I'll wait a couple months and get the 125s, dunno. ;-)

And hey, Ike, what's up with selling a product with a proprietary NiCad battery, but then charging extra for the charger? I realize you gotta put food on the table, but . . . seems like it should be included in the cost of the strobes, and have the price be $50 higher.

So many people already have our smart charger from earlier strobe or flashlight purchases............

At some point soon (hint hint!) Ikelite should be releasing their DS-80 strobe. Sounds like that may be perfect for you taxgeek.

The DS125's are great for just about everything. If you plan to shoot strictly macro, then the DS50's are better. The reason is the focused beam - the round flash tube on the DS125's means it sends out a very wide beam - which can be a problem for isolating the subject when you're shooting macro.

The DS125's are also pretty negatively buoyant underwater which can be a consideration, however Sarah's Ikelite 20D housing set up with 2 x DS125's and 2x 8" buoyancy arms is just about perfect.

A lower color temperature is actually ideal for underwater shooting as the water has a blue-filtering effect.

Cheers

James

According to the specs, the DS 125 is about a 1/3 stop stronger than the DS 50 (30% brighter). But IN THEORY, for short distance macro work, I'm not sure that there is much at issue with regards to that power difference.

theory.........

gn of DS 50 at full power (ISO 100, ft) = 28

aperture = f/22

strobe to subject distance = 15.4 inches (gn/a=d)

In theory, at STS distances closer than 15.4 inches you will overexpose the foreground at f/22 at full dump. The camera lens can be closer, but the strobe in theory should not.

gn of DS 125 at full power (ISO 100, ft) = 32

aperture = f/22

strobe to subject distance = 17.5 inches (gn/a=d)

What this tells me in theory is that at full dump, if you place the DS 50 around two inches closer to the macro subject, you would equal the intensity of the DS 125 at full dump.

At closer distances requiring less strobe power (the norm?), the STS difference will be even less that 2 inches.

at ISO 200:

DS 50= GN 39 = STS distance of 21 inches

DS 125= GN 45 = STS distance of 24.6 inches

At ISO 200, theory states a 3 inch difference in STS distance.

The difference between the two strobes will be more evident, as stated, at wide angle, where the DS 125, with it's greater beam angle, will cover more area. Also, as stated previously, the DS 125 will recycle quicker. Recycle times for strobes should be considered in conjunction with write times or buffer times of the camera and storage media. Recycle times for strobes will also be affected by power level chosen and battery condition, including ambient temperature.

Diffuser installed will affect distances............

hth,

b

caveat: I was completely dry, sitting in front of a fireplace during calculations.......wetness may affect results

Thanks, All!

And yeah, I finally figured that out, Ike, there's no good way sell the chargers - you can't make everybody happy all the time, can you? ;-)

Zounds, Bob, Those are some calculations! Thanks! I think I get what you're saying though, about subject to strobe distance, and foreground being blown out. Good thing for RAW, huh?

Another advantage of the DS-125 is the modeling light I finally discovered. I have no idea how good the 5d is at focusing in the dark (it does ok for landscape work, but that's not exactly comparable). And, if I'm shooting on manual focus and moving the camera in and out to focus, my eyes will really appreciate the extra light to see if the exposure is right . . . at least I think so! ;-)

Sorry to hijack, but;

The reason is the focused beam - the round flash tube on the DS125's means it sends out a very wide beam - which can be a problem for isolating the subject when you're shooting macro.

What? Maybe a snoot can be used to isolate close up subjects, but I fail to see the logic of how a 70x55deg strobe beam is any different from a 100deg beam w/ a 6 deg lens?....

Hi Ryan,

The problem I had was that when I was shooting say a ghost pipefish, my strobes were lighting up the sand in the background. The cone of light was so wide that no matter how I aimed them, something back there was getting lit up that I didn't want lit up.

Given I was using SS200's which are very wide. When I switched to my narrower beam strobes, I was able to aim them so that only the pipefish would be lit up. Try as I might I could not get that to work w/ the SS200s.

Cheers

James

Another advantage of the DS-125 is the modeling light I finally discovered.  I have no idea how good the 5d is at focusing in the dark (it does ok for landscape work, but that's not exactly comparable).  And, if I'm shooting on manual focus and moving the camera in and out to focus, my eyes will really appreciate the extra light to see if the exposure is right . . . at least I think so! ;-)

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The 5D has amazazing AF. Even with two diopters stacked on my 150mm macro lens at 2:1 the AF was snappy. Of course you will need some kind of light on a night dive. But during the day the only time I found that I needed to use the focus light was shooting an eel that was way back in a cave.

All i can add to this is get the d125's

I own a bunch of oceanics- Ikelites-and sr's

My favorites are those 125 they are small-lite and recycle super quick. Those add a battery strobes will be a pain.

If you want the best macro only-non ttl manual strobe -super small and rechargable dig around for some used sonic Research ones. They only have 1 power not the bizzion choices of the latest digital strobes-but they are perfect for manual macro. Mark