Highway Robbery???

Why buy a camera with AF as good as the D200 and worry about manual focus gears? I take the odd image underwater and don't own a single manual focus gear for any of my lenses.

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DiveGypsy mentioned a few reasons why manual focus can sometimes be useful. I agree with Alex as far as wide angle is concerned, and don't own any mf gears for any of my wide-angle lenses. But macro can be a different story. A few examples:

1. Shooting a commensal Pandalid shrimp (Miropandalus hardingi) on a bushy black coral on a wall, and unable to lock focus on the shrimp amidst the tangled branches of black coral. It took me awhile to remember this was why why I paid the extra $$ for a manual focus port for my 105. MF worked.

2. Shooting gobies and alpheid shrimp in very shallow water at mid-day, with strong sunlight ripples passing over the sand. The moving bands of shadow and bright sunlight completely confused the auto-focus system. This dive was the reason I subsequently paid the extra $$ to buy a new manual focus port for my 105. Not a single frame in the entire roll was in focus. (This was back in film days - the D2X might have handled the situation better than my old F801s did, but I'm not sure of that.)

3. Shooting picture dragonets in very turbid water at Secret Bay here in Bali. The D2X's AF capabilities are awesome, way beyond any other camera I've ever owned. But I really wanted the camera to focus on the dragonets, not those particles in the water between the dragonet and the lens.

4. Shooting a tiny pearlfish swimming in open water (away from its home hole in the nether regions of a holothurian) on a night dive. I spent several minutes trying to capture this rapidly moving fish with the D2X using autofocus. The dark night time water was also full of weird wriggling thingies, which didn't help the AF. Manual focus worked.

I'd be happy to use AF all the time if I could, but sometimes it just doesn't work. On a night dive with poor viz and/or lots of wriggling thingies attracted to my light, I probably use manual focus at least as much or more than I use AF.

Frogfish

Really, I don't see anyone getting rich from making or distriubing underwater photo gear. We're lucky there's even competition of sorts that tends to at least moderate the prices. And we probably all know of a few items we want, but can't find, at any price. Designers and manufacturers have to make a living and their distribuors and re-sellers are trying to scrape by to, while selling a mere handful of this stuff. They are fighting for and dividing a market that doesn't grow that much, especially at the high end. We're really fortunate to have the (growing) choices we do of high-quality, speciality gear that is readily available. I can't imagine how much this stuff would cost without modern design and production automation technologies.

"Really, I don't see anyone getting rich from making or distriubing underwater photo gear. We're lucky there's even competition of sorts that tends to at least moderate the prices."

 

I don't think it is hard to recognize that we get plowed on these accessory items. Production costs alone don't raise focus ring prices to $ 150.00 levels, they only contribute to those prices.

 

In business you "Eat what you can kill", and if you can get people to pay $ 150.00 for a focus ring, then you get $ 150.00 bucks in return for one, regardless of your cost of sale. It is no more intriquing or involved than that. With small volumes, compared to broader product segments, these makers must have larger margins.

 

There is the curious need, in niche makets, for the consumer to ensure the seller's health in order to further service the consumers requirements. For those who produce desired products, we ensure their health by paying $ 150.00 bucks for a focus ring so they and their distributor get a big enough slice to profit sufficiently. And it is only they who determines what is sufficient. But one must assume the requirement is greater than simple survival.

 

Personally, I am fully supportive of these business making as much money from their segment as they can. I firmly believe in market constrained capitalism.

I can understand the cost of focus gears, since they're probably machined individually in small quantities. What I don't get is how Aquatica charges over $50 each for lens port covers? I just can't bring myself to pay that much for something that should be included with the priduct, IMO. In the meantime I'm using a CD spindle cover for the macro port cover. Maybe I should bring the port to the supermarket to see if there's a Tupperware top that fits perfectly.

I can understand the cost of focus gears, since they're probably machined individually in small quantities. What I don't get is how Aquatica charges over $50 each for lens port covers? I just can't bring myself to pay that much for something that should be included with the priduct, IMO. In the meantime I'm using a CD spindle cover for the macro port cover. Maybe I should bring the port to the supermarket to see if there's a Tupperware top that fits perfectly.

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I had the same issue with the cost of a neoprene cover for my dome port. So I simply sourced an old wetsuit, cut out and glued the needed pieces - voila! Focusing gears, however, are beyond what I will attempt to DIY. Based on the various opinions expressed in this thread I have decided to postpone purchase of the MF gears. Who knows? I might find down the road that they would come in handy. But what an oportunity to form my own opinion without the upfront expense of $300!!

GG

Rapid prototyping using photo cured epoxies will indeed work but will cost you the time to do the drawing and about $45 each (from the guys we use, in-house the cost would be $80 or so to help pay for the $700K machine) plus some finish machining since you will pay for lots of plastic to get the job done. That being said, you could probably make them quicker than you could get one from Ike. Interestingly, a couple of weeks ago on the Spectre in Ventura, we saw a guy that had a home made video housing made as a rapid prototype. Turns out he was a chemist at the company that makes the resin so his cost was zero and machine time was at night. Very strange to see, since the housing wasn't molded there were all sorts of neat curves and things.

Bill

I have taken the MF gears off all my lenses. I did use them regularly (and I consider MF absolutely necessary in plenty of cases) but I now use software features of my D2X to obtain the same end result. I use 2 preference sets in my menu. One I call 'Auto' and one I call 'Manual'. In manual I reprogrammed the shutter release button to only release, NOT focus. I also reprogrammed the AF/AE lock button to do focus. Now I use the lock button to somewhat focus on the subject until I have the desired framing. Then I manually move the whole rig back and forth for fine focus. (which is what I used to do with manual focus gears anyways, since imho its useless to fine focus with the gears).

No more hassle with gears not sticking, or not turning, or falling off, or breaking...

Also, this 'trick' works even if you use teleconverters (which I do on 75% of my dives), while at least on Subal you loose the ability to switch between auto and manual when using a TC.

Cor

I had the same issue with the cost of a neoprene cover for my dome port. So I simply sourced an old wetsuit, cut out and glued the needed pieces - voila!

I was referring to the REAR port covers. The part that he lens pokes through before you seal it to the housing. Do most companies charge extra for this, or is it just Aquatica?

Rapid prototyping using photo cured epoxies will indeed work but will cost you the time to do the drawing and about $45 each (from the guys we use, in-house the cost would be $80 or so to help pay for the $700K machine) plus some finish machining since you will pay for lots of plastic to get the job done. That being said, you could probably make them quicker than you could get one from Ike. Interestingly, a couple of weeks ago on the Spectre in Ventura, we saw a guy that had a home made video housing made as a rapid prototype. Turns out he was a chemist at the company that makes the resin so his cost was zero and machine time was at night. Very strange to see, since the housing wasn't molded there were all sorts of neat curves and things.

Bill

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I am a little surprised that the photolithography resins would be strong enough for a housing. The prototypes parts I have done at work have all turned out fairly brittle. I know that there are many different resins available, but none of them are nearly as strong as polycarbonate. It would be a bummer to have your housing implode at 100ft!

I am interested in who does your RP work since the companies we have been using would charge around $150 for something the size of a focus ring. Also you have to factor into the cost calculation that often you have to do more than one prototype to get it right. Part of what you are paying for from the housing manufacturers the testing that goes along with the design. That being said, it would be cool to share CAD files for little bits like focus rings so that people could DIY.

It is also interesting to note that while no one appears to be getting rich from manufacturing housings, the number of vendors is definitely increasing. For example, although the 5D only came out last August, Digideep lists 8 vendors which manufacture housings for it (Sea & Sea DX-5D, Aquatica 5D, SUBAL C5, Seacam silver Canon 5D, Sealux CC 5, Ikelite #6871.05 Canon 5D, UK-GERMANY UK-D-5D, Hugyfot HFC-5D)

Has anyone used eMachineShop to get things like focus rings made:

http://www.emachineshop.com/

If you could pool together and get 10 items manufactured at the one time the prices are really cheap.

Although I havea cupboard full of focussing rings, I stopped using them years ago. With wide-angle I use auto-focus and with macro I let the auto-focus give me the magnification that I want and them I switch it off, getting final sharp focus by simply moving the camera in and out a smidge from the subject until I hit the right moment. I have been doing this since long before I took a camera underwater and have found it to be a very satisfactory technique. Underwater, since the camera is not locked off and is going to move anyway, it puts all the dynamic action of focussing into one department as it were.

http://www.divernet.com/travel2/1205lembeh.shtml

Well, that's what I do!

Steve:

Most of our rapid prototyping is done either in house (actually in Minneapolis, we are in LA) at corporate or at 3D systems in Valencia. We have good deals with them, since we do a lot of parts. I agree that the photoresins are kind of scary to take diving but the guy who had the housing we saw on the Spectre made really thick cross sections, probably $600 or more worth or resins. My wife is the mechanical engineer in the family, she was more shocked than me. As for focusing rings, I am pretty sure I wouldn't want to have such brittle stuff if there was much torque.

Cheers

BVA