Dual Strobes?

Hi From Indonesia

Can anyone please give me some advise about dual strobes?

Is dual strobes always produce a better pics than a single strobe?

i Just ordered my underwater Photography equipment:

Sea and Sea Dx-D50

with single YS-110 (early july)

Sea and Sea Arm VI

some macro port and compact dome port (for Sigma 105 DG and Nikon 10,5mm)

Thx you

Andree

In general two strobes are better. But all good photographers will at times use no strobe or only one strobe. Starting with one strobe and learning it''s strengths and weakness is a good way to start.

Remember though; if you have two strobes on your rig you only need to use one if you want. But if you have only one and you want two you are SOL. Also strobes (and or synch cords) tend to fail on long, highly anticipated trips.

See that article by Stephen Frink about this issue.

Hi From Indonesia

"Can anyone please give me some advise about dual strobes?

Is dual strobes always produce a better pics than a single strobe?"

 

As opposed to "advice" I submit all of the following as only my opinion:

 

I like two strobes for macro because of the greater DOF possibilities, but for wide angle I think it depends on the type of WA you are shooting.

 

I don't believe there is any better way to shoot close focus wide angle than with a single powerful strobe if it is handheld and pitched and aimed effectively. And you can change composition and lighting so fast and easily when handholding a strobe.

 

On a personal level, all of my better WA images have been shot that way. It just seems that greater ambient and less, but more specific, artificial light lends more contrast and dimension. To me dual strobe images often have a flat look to them, unless the photographer is using strobes with mismatched temps and is inventive with his aiming.

 

You've surely heard the old adage about "painting with light", well in most cases that is done better with single handheld strobe.

 

I believe the majority of the best close focus wide angle shots ever published, or that I have personally seen, were from a Nik III, IV or V with a 15, or an RS with the 13, and a handheld single strobe. They just have a depth that isn't equaled by eye-walled or blanket dual strobe use, particular when dual strobes are rendered on a sensor rather than emulsion.

 

I think the reason this particular technique has fallen out of favor is because so many people have migrated to SLRs and DSLRs and the housings are quite difficult for most people to handhold with their right while wielding a single strobe in the other hand.

SilvioMarchena,

That is fascinating. It never occurred to me to even try my point and shoot without the arm but I was often frustrated by inability to get the strobe into certain positions. An interesting concept I will certainly have to try on my next outting. Thanks,

Gary

I like using two strobes most of the time, but I think most photographers agree that you ideally don't want both strobes set at the same power level. If one is set at a slightly lower power setting (say 1 stop weaker), you will have more "dominant" lighting from one side, and the other (weaker) strobe helps fill in harsh shadows on the other side. This still leaves an impression of depth to the photo (i.e., more light coming from one direction). This is true both in macro AND fish/wide angle shooting. As has been stated above, using two strobes (at least when they have equal power output) can tend to give photos a "flat" look.

So if you use two, make one the dominant one (in your case, the YS-110), and use the other as a secondary or "fill" strobe, perhaps keeping it farther away from the subject if you don't use/have manual power settings.

Thank you for all the advices!

what if i use this set up?

i will use video light on my left arm (such as sea&sea LX15/LX25) and i will use the Strobe on my right arm.

is this a good setup for macro or WA?

Thx you

...i will use video light on my left arm (such as sea&sea LX15/LX25) and i will use the Strobe on my right arm.

is this a good setup for macro or WA?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The video light will serve as a modeling light, but it will be useless as a way of lighting stills, since the strobe is so much more powerful that it will totally overwhelm the video light each time you fire it.

"That is fascinating. It never occurred to me to even try my point and shoot without the arm but I was often frustrated by inability to get the strobe into certain positions. An interesting concept I will certainly have to try on my next outting."

 

Gary, beware when shooting wide angle that you keep your strobe out of the shot. Be cognizant not only where you are aiming the strobe (I once shot a strobe backwards ) but also where it is in reference to the lens acceptance. This isn't as much a problem with SLR/DSLR as it is with a viewfinder camera.

I find a hand-held strobe very difficult, an observation reflected by Martin Edge in his new book, where he comments on the damage that the instability of divers hand-holding strobes can do to the reef. With a housing and two strobes sensible arms replace hand-holding, anyway. I have been a wide-angle aficionado, and, indeed, have only just bought a macro port after 8 years of serious photography. I use two lightweight Inon Z-220s, but often have two stops difference in power between them. A little fill often seems to be better than none at all, so I tend to use two or none, but I am often using a Nikon 10.5mm lens, which can see your feet when held to your eye! Two strobes are needed to cover the field of view.

I wouldn't suggest starting with two, though. Learn one and then add another: and don't use a slave, use two synch cords, as that's much more reliable. Get good arms, short for macro but up to 18"/45cm for fisheyes. I think that the Ultralight bouyancy arms look great, but haven't tried them yet. To get sufficient flexibility at least two points of rotation are needed, and three (two arm segments) are better. The angle at which the strobe comes off its ball joint can sometimes be awkward, as it was in the early Inon strobes which tended to project forward from the arms.

This is my sort of stuff:

Tim

B)

"I find a hand-held strobe very difficult, an observation reflected by Martin Edge in his new book, where he comments on the damage that the instability of divers hand-holding strobes can do to the reef."

 

Forgive me, but I am at somewhat of a loss to understand what your statement intends.

 

Are you suggesting people should not handhold a strobe because you find it very difficult or because Martin has seen people damage the reef in trying to do so?

I thought that I was inexperienced having a hard time hand-holding with a housing, but Martin thinks that its a big problem, and doesn't teach it. I have found aiming and controlling the light EASIER with TLC arms, which I set up before approaching a subject. What I do a lot, though, is turn DOWN the strobe power to use whatever the ambient light is giving me. I recently saw a diver with four strobes clustered around an Ikelite housing, but he wouldn't share any of his images, so I suspect that the illumination was overpowering. I guess that hand-holding is OK if you kneel on some sand, but hovering is tricky.

I was so relieved to find an expert who doesn't advocate hand-holding, that I'm passing on the message of my own difficulties.

Tim

B)

"I guess that hand-holding is OK if you kneel on some sand, but hovering is tricky."

 

You appear to have trouble handholding a strobe, so you have chosen not to do it. To me that is competent behavior, but you shouldn't attempt to deny others the option or attemp to set limits for them, simply because handholding a strobe does not complement your skills set.

when shooting macro i have a sea and sea ys 30 that is unattached to my regular setup. i like to put it behind a subject by just laying it on the sand. its usefull to backlight or side light, or to up light or 'monsterlight'. its great for bringing out texture, or highlighting a specific feature, or other dramatic effects.

....but you shouldn't attempt to deny others the option or attemp to set limits for them,

That's a bit strong!

I cannot see anywhere in Tim's post that he is attempting to deny others or set limits.

The point Tim makes - and Martin Edge - is that damage can be caused by divers who, whilst being 'reef aware' when holding their equipment as one unit, tend to loose control of their buoyancy when they use both hands to hold the seperate items.

I have seen this happen on a number of occasions; ofter a photographer will pick a dead piece of coral to hold/touch onto and that stabilises their buoyancy - more so than they realise, perhaps.

Taking away that option affects them to the extend they sink & contact the reef.

ralphy: "That's a bit strong!

I cannot see anywhere in Tim's post that he is attempting to deny others or set limits."

 

Per tpreist: "I guess that hand-holding is OK if you kneel on some sand".

 

ralphy: "The point Tim makes - and Martin Edge - is that damage can be caused by divers who, whilst being 'reef aware' when holding their equipment as one unit, tend to loose control of their buoyancy when they use both hands to hold the seperate items."

 

Why would handholding a strobe that was part of their kit when they trimmed for the dive, cause anyone to lose "control of their bouyancy"? You don't sink because you are handholding a strobe, you sink for reasons that have nothing to do with photography, photographic technique or photographic equipment.

 

ralphy: "I have seen this happen on a number of occasions; ofter a photographer will pick a dead piece of coral to hold/touch onto and that stabilises their buoyancy - more so than they realise, perhaps."

 

They aren't stabilizing their bouyancy. In fact they aren't changing it to any degree. What they are doing, if hovering is the intent (assuming nominal water conditions), is grabbing a piece of coral as a crutch for not being trimmed properly in the first place.

 

ralphy: "Taking away that option affects them to the extend they sink & contact the reef."

 

They aren't sinking because they are handholding a strobe, they are sinking because they aren't trimmed correctly to not sink.

 

Let's call it what it is. In nominal water conditions, should I sink to the bottom and damage the reef, it is because I don't know how or could care less about managing my bouyancy and trim, as a diver. I am at fault....not the strobe, not the game bag, not the salvage bag not anything I planned on diving with before the dive. I am at fault because I was not properly trimmed for whatever activity or technique I chose to pursue during the dive.

I'd have to preface this by saying I'm a novice to both SCUBA and underwater photography; but, my experience in Cozumel gave me a new found respect for both activities. First, I found that I had no choice in placing a finger on a part of dead reef in order to stop myself from drifting with the current. This brief and meditated anchoring on the reef allowed me to briefly remain still while focusing and shooting a subject. Had I not done this, it is likely that I would have drifted horizontally into a taller reef structure. Since I was taught to shoot upwards I was often at the lowest possible point without making contact with the reef; however, any lateral movement would have resulted in unacceptable contact with living reef. So I'd have to surmise that anchoring with one hand is not always due to poor bouyancy and more likely due to mild current or surge.

Later,

Gary

"I'd have to surmise that anchoring with one hand is not always due to poor bouyancy and more likely due to mild current or surge."

 

I was responding to the statement which said the extra hand was to hold coral so they don't "sink & contact the reef". And that is precisely why I premised my comments on "nominal conditions".

 

Most of us use a finger from time to time as conditions merit to keep safe the reef, but not because we are so poorly trimmed that we are sinking.

 

And in the case of conditions that warrant a finger on dead coral, a good citizen of the seas wouldn't choose to handhold at that specific moment.