Subal, Seacam, Aquatica VS Ikelite

I've not had my Ikelite housing make any kind of noise including popping...

With a new D70 replacement out I'm very glad not to have spent more on my housing. The D70 is fine and I'm keeping it for at least another generation. But the days of a lifetime camera and a gold plated housing to go with it are over I'm afraid. Others with more mone and more diving will want the best but the Ikelite gets the job done and at $1500 is still darned expensive.

I upgraded from Ike to seacam because of the viewfinder ....that's a lot of money for a magnifying glass!

In 1995 I made the transition from rich amateur to poor professional underwater photographer. Before that, I bought underwater photography kit because I wanted it. Now I have to see how I can make a profit. I changed to digital simply because the augument against buying film & processing was unarguable but now I realise that the clever marketing guys are simply taking our money by changing the hardware and software instead.

A top quality film camera lasted me with full hard professional use around 25 years. My first expenditure (note: I did not say investment!) in digital photography lasted me two years (the housing 18 months).

People buy Porsches because they want them. I once did. It is just a way of keeping money in circulation and helps the economy. One can argue that expensive camera housings do the same.

(I last bought a new car eleven years ago and I still have it and it still takes me where I want to go. Thankfully, unleaded petrol is still available for it.)

So buy things because you want them. If you have the money to spare, why not? On the other hand, do not feel bad because someone on the dive-deck has a more expensive outfit. They might be a crap photographer! Feel jealous if they take more interesting pictures!

"On the other hand, do not feel bad because someone on the dive-deck has a more expensive outfit. They might be a crap photographer!"

John. Are you daring to suggest that its not the equipment merely the person behind the camera? There are some things that really should not be said!

But seriously, the housing choice is extensive, you can quickly narrow it down by making decisions on depth rating, viewfinder, ergonomics, etc. As with most things the higher your specifications for your requirements, the more expensive the housing.

Paul, You are right!

My BMW 318Ti does only 135mph when my Porsche did 155mph. Clearly the Porsche was a better car. The depreciation on my Porsche was around £20,000 in two years whereas the depreciation on my BMW has been around the same over eleven years. Who would argue that the cheaper car was better?

I am sure that if you were a Porsche dealer you would have all the arguments as to why I made a mistake buying the cheaper car. Seacam housings are undoubtedly the best especially with 'that' viewfinder.

I have just signed a contract with a publisher to supply 350 underwater pictures at £30 each. That does not go a long way to paying for my £2million house in Twickenham but if I decide to move to a caravan in Anglesey I shall definitely buy a Seacam housing for the latest DSLR (to be announced soon!)

All the best.

(For those readers who don't know, Paul is the importer for Seacam in the UK.)

JB

I think when it comes to posing with cameras on dive boats - the average diver really can't tell one rig from another. And certainly the difference between DSLR brands is non-existant in the eyes of the average compact carrying diver.

Most people think my camera is a video (the shame of it)!

I think by far the best posing comes from a real old school setup. A Calypsophot has much higher posing kudos than the latest DSLR. Maybe I should take my Nikonos 111 on my next trip.

Alex

If I was going to pose, I'd get a better body - and I am not talking about cameras either!

Every time a discussion comes up about Ikelite housings, people that favor Ikelite mention the fact that you can look inside the housing and see a leak. For two reasons I think this is not a good argument.

First, I trust my leak alarm way more than I trust my eyes. It goes off with even a single drop and i would surely not have seen that. Im not saying a leak alarm is necessarily better, but I think being able to see offers no benefit besides some mental 'assurance' or 'distrust' of electronics.

Second, during my trips ive seen several housings flood. It doesnt seem to matter if its a seethrough housing or not. Most of the time a flood is operator error and/or carelessness. If you dont actually look at your housing, you dont see water entering.

Im not at all against ikelite housings, because they offer a cheap way to enter into underwater photography, but this whole 'being able to see' thing is just silly when it comes to more expensive cameras. Imho a leak alarm is the only way to go.

Cor

I think what Cor has said makes the point perfectly. People can buy any housing that they "think" is right, but if you don't use your basic tool (your eyes) to check your equipment before you enter the water and you don't properly mantain your gear, then no matter what you use it will flood. I use Ikelite because it allows me the opportunity to spend the money on the better lenses which is really what helps to make better pictures, not the housings. I would love the Seacam housing for my cameras (both film and digital) but at that price, I couldn't afford the camera gear to go in it. If money is not your consideration, then by all means spend it looks and not on function, IMHO.

"If I was going to pose, I'd get a ......." in my case a drysuit that didn't have patches on it a different sized sals, and the knee pads hanging off and..... you get the drift.

Paradoxically shooting in poor conditions around the western coasts of Britain and Ireland is a hard place for a housing. Since that is what I do I use equipment which I believe will stand up to the conditions its used in reliably, and which will yield the images I want. Simple really.

'O' rings are a tried and tested technology. In my experience disasterous floods and almost invariably down to a substantial user mistake in prep or maintainence or equipment damage. If you look after gear well (methodically and spending substantial time checking and cleaning it) then flooding should be a very rare event.

As for leak detectors, they are insurance. I'd recommend an audio/visual one for ANY housing. After all you can bet that if a flood happens, it will start when you aren't actually looking at the housing, clear or otherwise!

In addition to those superb viewfinders, Seacam also makes a superb remote control!

BTW, pressure will compress any housing and is taken into consideration in housing design. Recall that Nikonos lenses essentially floated in their mount, the registration of the optical axis was a separate fitting (F-like inner mount on the RS, lugs or inner mount on earlier Nikonos lenses). This assured optical alignment as pressure increased with depth.

Tom

Good points all around, thank you.

And thank you for the reminder that a good viewfinder is an important part of what will make the housing more user-friendly.

You all have made good points that usefulness overall is only judged by how good your ability is to turn your skills into quality results. I don't plan to pose with my housing anytime soon, my goal is to always become a better photographer each and every dive and simply desire to have equipment that lasts through all my misgivings. Responsiveness, durability, and a housing that doesn't frustrate your objectives and does not feel like its working against you are all important to me.

Unfortunately, floods do happen, that is what insurance is for, and for me, it shouldnt be the end of the world. I am very particular with all my equipment and it maintenance and I do sincerely hope a flood never happens, but I also understand that nothing is guaranteed. Regardless of what housing you own, if you just think that you can slap it together and it is going to be a push and play automatic winner every time, then you dont deserve to be suprised in the least when your housing floods. Now, manufacturer's shortcomings, that is a whole different matter.

When I naively started this thread, I didnt know if housings were like diving in cold water -you can dive in colder water with a wetsuit comfortably, and it will get the job done. But choosing a dry suit heightens the your ability to enjoy the dive more and get more out of it. Their cost varies a lot, but there are some noticeable differences. From this discussion, what I gather most is that when you chose a housing, regardless of price or material, you should choose it based upon what tools it provides for you to enjoy your photography and grow more comfortable with it. Now, I don't think there are a lot of justisfication to be placed on how the housings differ in price. It is all determinate of what you want in a housing. Do you want a leak alarm, a particular viewfinder, certain port options and controls? Do you want to use a particular brand of strobes, do you want it to be a certain weight or buoyancy. Knowing how you will use your camera and what you will need for it determines which housing you get, regardless of price or material. If a particular housing has all of these things and costs a small investment or a large one, then that should be what you "settle" for.

I agree with Cor, I think it might be hard to spot a leak even with a transparent housing until its too late. I myself have added a LEEK detector to my housing. Have your cake and eat it too.

For me the benifit of transparent housings is that you can see the buttons inside. In setting up the camera and operating it its very easy to tell if all the controls are working properly and if not why not. Slight adjustments underwater are possible. I think I'd be very frustrated with an aluminum housing if something wasn't aligned properly.

But the main argument is price. For the price of the more expensive housings, I can keep up with two or three generations of digital cameras. Even with Ikelite, the main reason for me not to upgrade to the D200 this round is the cost of the housing not the camera.

When I naively started this thread, I didnt know if housings were like diving in cold water -you can dive in colder water with a wetsuit comfortably, and it will get the job done.  But choosing a dry suit heightens the your ability to enjoy the dive more and get more out of it.  Their cost varies a lot, but there are some noticeable differences. From this discussion, what I gather most is that when you chose a housing, regardless of price or material, you should choose it based upon what tools it provides for you to enjoy your photography and grow more comfortable with it. 

 

Now, I don't think there are a lot of justisfication to be placed on how the housings differ in price.  It is all determinate of what you want in a housing.  Do you want a leak alarm, a particular viewfinder, certain port options and controls?  Do you want to use a particular brand of strobes, do you want it to be a certain weight or buoyancy.  Knowing how you will use your camera and what you will need for it determines which housing you get, regardless of price or material.  If a particular housing has all of these things and costs a small investment or a large one, then that should be what you "settle" for.

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You got it! Nice summary...

Gee, I love reading the answers to questions like these. Let's face it, it's like buying a car. Is Brand/Model B 1.2 times better than Brand/Model A? B costs 1.2x more than A, yet they both have the same acceleration, gas mileage, etc. Is Brand/Model C 3x better than Brand/Model A?

No matter how you value the features, the mathematical answer is that it is not worth the extra cost of any of these more expensive housings. We should all be diving Ikelite housings.

We don't because we convince ourselves that the marginal features are required, not a value added and at an appropriate cost.

"I spent an extra $5k on Seacam because the viewfinder is better than Ikelite."

"I spent an extra $1k on Aquatica because the shutter release lever has better action than the Ikelite."

Write them all down and you start thinking about your own sanity. The reality is that I want extra nice features and I paid for them and it didn't make economic sense. I've "progressed" from an Ikelite to an Aquatica to a Subal. Each has been an improvement, but I would be hard pressed to justify the incremental cost, especially Aquatica to Subal.

I split my time between a Chevy pickup and a Lexus GS. When I'm driving the Lexus, I wonder why I wasted my money on a Lexus. When I'm driving the truck, I can't wait to gather up all the fallen and broken plastic parts, glue them back on and hop back in the Lexus.

Every time a discussion comes up about Ikelite housings, people that favor Ikelite mention the fact that you can look inside the housing and see a leak...I trust my leak alarm way more than I trust my eyes. It goes off with even a single drop and i would surely not have seen that. ..

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I have to agree. Although Ike makes great housings, "seeing leaks" is not a valid reason to choose them. I remember years ago when I was diving with an SLR in an Ikelite housing, and during a safety stop, I noticed a fellow diver pointing at my camera and clearly laughing through his reg (yes, laughing! :glare: ). When I looked down, sure enough I could see through the clear housing that there was about two inches of water sloshing around inside (more than enough to make it too late to save the camera, which was fried).

I have to say that I much prefer an electronic leak alarm (that screams at the first hint of moisture) to the ol' "laughing buddy" alarm...

noticed a fellow diver pointing at my camera and clearly laughing  through his reg (yes, laughing!  ).

Oh that's cruel. I wouldn't dive with that guy again.

The LEEK detector flashes. Are there any add on detectors that beep too?

Ive been on the other end of that. Seeing people's housing flood and seeing them stare at it without acting. Ive had to basically push people back to the surface (safely ofcourse) because they were frozen in shock or something. I think it has to do with being too unfamiliar with your housing and not instinctively know what to do or whats right and whats not.

Ive always wondered what the markups are for underwater housings and other UW photo gear, and especially if the markup percentages differ between manufacturers like Ikelite and Subal. I do believe Subal/Seacam etc are quite a bit more expensive to make. But are they twice as expensive to make? Or are they just marked up more than others because crazy people like myself will pay for it.

Cor

Oh that's cruel.  I wouldn't dive with that guy again.

The LEEK detector flashes. Are there any add on detectors that beep too?

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Yes, it was cruel, but it was a good friend, and since it was already too late to do anything about it, all you can do is laugh, right?

The Seacam moisture alarm has a red light that flashes, but it also beeps in a shrill and obnoxious way that lets every diver and undersea animal in sight know there's a problem. I've never had mine go off because of an actual flood, but it goes off if it even just comes in contact with a bit of sea water (e.g., if your hands are wet and you get a drop around the sensor), and that has happened to me a couple of times.

Hell, if I ever actually had a leak, it would probably go off like a car alarm!

Ive always wondered what the markups are for underwater housings and other UW photo gear, and especially if the markup percentages differ between manufacturers like Ikelite and Subal. I do believe Subal/Seacam etc are quite a bit more expensive to make. But are they twice as expensive to make?

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I am not aware that anyone who makes UW housings is getting very rich as a result. Most of them turn up to the dive shows in the same T shirts every year!

So I think we can rest assured that they charge a reasonable mark-up so that they can afford to stay in business (it is a low volume business afterall). But I think prices are fairly proportional to production costs.

Alex