Does this sum up the diving trade?

The wife of a well-heeled friend had previously asked me to help her buy a complete set of diving equipment for a Christmas present for her husband, which we did.

This year she asked me for a diving-related idea for a present for him. Knowing him well, I suggested a Suunto D9 air-integrated computer.

She went to a dive store with this written on a piece of paper. She tells me the dive store owner refused to sell her one on the grounds that air-integration is a waste of money and tried to sell her a D6 instead.So she bought nothing and went to a jewellery store and bought him another watch instead.

I posted this on another site and got castigated for 1) suggesting air-integration and 2) because money was no object to her.

Putting that aside, don't you feel it rather strange that a store owner refused to sell her what she wanted? She did not get that objection in the jewellery store when she spent a lot more on a watch - and that only tells the time!

Maybe its different in your country but in the UK there is definitely an idea that the dive-store owner knows better than the customer - and dive -stores are going out of business.

She tells me the dive store owner refused to sell her one on the grounds that air-integration is a waste of money and tried to sell her a D6 instead.

Sounds like she stumbled into a "Technical Diving" oriented store.

I've been told tech divers absolutely frown on air integrated computers for one reason or another.

Personally, I love the air integrated setup. I just went wireless for air integration and couldn't be happier, although I will supplement my reg setup with a SPG from time to time.

Remember, the point of the story is not what she wanted to buy but that the store owner turned down a £1000 sale for reasons of what? Personal arrogance?

Just bizarre, its bad enough when potential customers come in, tap into your knowledge and buy at a dive show or off the Internet, but to turn the sale away and the chance to cultivate the customer is bizarre. Is it just "techno snobbery"

I have experienced this in the UK. I would agree it is Techdiver arrogance. I don't dispute tech divers know a lot of stuff, but I have been in a few shops in the UK, which literally have been set up by guys who are weekend divers who spent way too much money on qualifications they don't use and got annoyed with travelling an hour or more to go to a dive shop to chat to other divers so they made their own store close to hand.

They then get disgruntled that their shop doesn't have enough business to create cash flow to warrant the stock they bought so the arrogance really comes out.

Now imagine that guy who set up that shop had done less than 100 dives all of which were certification dives in a inland lake no deeper than 20m. I knew a shop owner just like that.

In the UK you will find good dive shops at dive locations .. any others I would be wary of unless you know them or they are nice and helpfull.

My 2 cents .. not trying to offend anyone .. I may have generalised but you have to to get a point across somtimes

Are you sure that they had a D9. Perhaps they did not have a D9 so to make a sale, he tryed to sell what he had? But then I would not be surprized if they did not have such a good excuese. I see similar thing all the time here too, not just dive shops. At just about any "speciality store". Sometimes it is because of ignorance from the underpayed employee or grumpy owner who just don't care.

It really does not make any sense. In a time when the internet makes it impossible for a brick-n-mortor store to compete pricewise, they are supposed to make up for it by offering good advise and customer service. But I find that knowlege and customer service is often better on-line too.

If I was he and had no D9, I would have said, "I will get it and deliver to your house, if need be!" Some business people in the UK are too lazy or too stupid to be in business!

John,

I agree. The dive industry is still going through shake ups. Those who don't deliver service to help justify pricing needed to support the overhead of a brick and mortar store will die.

Giles is also correct in that too many "new know-it-all" dive store owners are of course biased on gear. Sounds like this guy MAY have tried to sell her what he had in stock, but didn't try and justify it nicely. Pretty dumb though that he wouldn't take the lady's money and just order one ASAP if possible. If her husband didn't want a hoseless computer he could take it back and get all the features in a D6 minus that.

My personal opinion, and not meaning to be too harsh on anyones gear and dive choices is that "tech diving" has created too may less experienced divers, who are gear oriented dive nuts and don't dive to see the ocean's inhabitants. They just want to be gear "measurebators" and are into looking cool. Progressing to 200' plus dives in demanding conditions after less than 150 dives (I've seen this a LOT!) is not only ridiculous, but unsafe. Read about incidents on any of the message boards out there if you don't believe me.....

I'll probably get flamed for that comment, but I've been on too many trips such as one where a guy hauled his CCR and tons of support stuff to do the same dives we did on a scuba tank. He spent his whole trip playing with the damn thing...For no longer bottom times than his girlfriend got diving open ciruit, too !

Maybe in Cocos or a few places it's worth it, but from what I've seen I'll use my money for more travel to great destinations and the resulting images.

YMMV

dhaas

David ... the only people that should flame your for that are the measurebators who will probably die doing what they thought made them so cool.

In the UK since tech diving took off the number of regular deaths has gone up. And they aren't normally on dives doing anything more than a recreational dive .. it's just testing new gear they bought but didn't know how to use. I used to blame it on Dive clubs or organisations but am since wiser and know it it the individual.

Here in Cayman it always makes me laugh .. I shore dive mostly when Alex comes down. We will go to one of our favourite shore dive spots .. sign in .. get a tank .. suit up .. go and do a 1.5 hour dive taking photos (sometimes longer). We will have arrived after a bunch of tech divers. who .. when we get in are just getting all their gear together. Thats if they have stopped talking about their new D ring attahced to their OMS BCD belt. (i like OMS i was just stereotyping)

Anyways .. there are normally two things tat happen now .. either we get out 1.5 hours later and they are still checking equipment .. or they have aborted the dive due to a failure ... either way .. I fail to see the fun in it .. I get gearobsession .. and i get the technical side of it .. but when i deep dive .. ok maybe i shouldn't say what I do ... but take it from me .. it's safe .. educated, simple and fun.

I can just see on a tech forum now ...

... you know those guys with the big stupid camera rigs .. i dont get it .. they spend all that time and money on their cameras .. and all it does is show them what they saw down their anyways .. i'd much rather buy a second tank or a refil for my rebreather .. oh hey did yousee those new split fins .. I don't know but they look like they may put out 1kJ more of power per leg cycle .. I am going to upgrade. Plus it's the same colour as my cold fusion heated wetsuit.

Giles.

Hilarious reply and you and I are of the same thinking. I have a couple dive friends up here in Ohio I won't go diving with because of exactly what you say. They take forever to get ready, gear fails, etc. Maybe they DO talk about us crazy expensive gear laden PHOTOGRAPHERS the same way.

I also agree on the limited deep dives I've done in the last decade. Take a pony with a complete spare reg if it makes you feel more comfortable. But knowing your primary reg is in good condition and double checking my main o-ring religiously these days before hooking up is about it for me. Plus watching my gauge! Anything past 120' is too limiting for decent photography anyway IMHO.

Hope to see you in mid-late April at Sunset House again. Maybe sooner....I'll be the slightly rotund furry mammal free diving down to you as you do your safety stop

dhaas

I posted this on a UK forum and got castigated because (I believe) there is an underlying hatred in the UK of anyone who manages to make any money - as these people obviously have. You should have seen the vitriol I attracted when I suggested the salesman that sold them the Mercedes S500 and the Porsche Cayenne did not tell them to buy a compact Ford.

I have to admit that I posted this here just to help heal the wounds - because I know there is a more international audience here that doesn't see making money from a successfull career as a crime!

Thanks (Giles) for making me feel better. Got to go - someone is running an envy line down the side of my car!

Here in Cayman it always makes me laugh .. I shore dive mostly when Alex comes down. We will go to one of our favourite shore dive spots .. sign in .. get a tank .. suit up .. go and do a 1.5 hour dive taking photos (sometimes longer). We will have arrived after a bunch of tech divers. who .. when we get in are just getting all their gear together. Thats if they have stopped talking about their new D ring attahced to their OMS BCD belt. (i like OMS i was just stereotyping)

Giles,

Don't underestimate the number of toys we take diving with us. It is just ours have Nikon or Canon written on them.

What you doing Saturday, fancy a dip? (don't reply here to stop this getting off topic).

Alex

HI ALL,

Surely its horses for courses we like to take pics of the wonderful

underwater world, teches love to take tanks to the abyss. Getting

back to the forum it would be interesting if any one else has had

the same experience. It may not happen to divers who have had

more experence with buying dive kit, as most of us know what we

want, it is rather sad that this dive shop could not just do as they

were asked, but then the world in which we live can be rather strange

place at times.

Andy

There are a couple of excellent dive shops up here in North Wales! Knowledgable, friendly and they both teach diving, have vast experience and most importantly do ENJOY diving! They can also service regs so that they actually work when customers pick them up.

HOWEVER I have been in a dive shop when a customer looked at dive gear and finally went off without purchasing - from both body language and some of the comments made I suspected that the lost sale was a very worthwhile sale to lose! Some shops do have a sense of responsibility and alarm bells can ring - I'm not suggesting this in your friend's case John, but there are some people with very strange ideas out there! Perhaps if your friend had said "John Bantin from Diver suggested that I buy this for my husband" then it might have resulted in a very different outcome!!!

Don't underestimate the number of toys we take diving with us. It is just ours have Nikon or Canon written on them.

! Perhaps if your friend had said "John Bantin from Diver suggested that I buy this for my husband" then it might have resulted in a very different outcome!!!

The dive shop owner would have said, "That tosser knows nothing! Buy what I tell you to buy!"

I am off with a bunch of dealers to Marseille. I intend to really rip into them for it!

John, if it makes you feel any better....

i have no shame, you can buy anything of mine... for the right price

John, if it makes you feel any better....

 

i have no shame, you can buy anything of mine... for the right price

Mike, I think everyone already knew that!

Reminds me of my run in with the Atomic dealer network at the dive show this year. I wanted to get a B2 setup with two titanium second stages rather than a Ti and a stainless octo, but the importer and dealer just didn't want to know because it would have been more complicated to order in the second Ti 2nd stage.

I have to wonder if in John's example, the dive shop had the D6 in stock but would have had to get a finger out to order the D9.

Martyn

Yep, same thing happened to me. I was trying to get a backup dive computer and I was looking for the uwatec aladin TEC (I like many of the features it has, as I do some deep diving for my research).

They didn't have it in stock and kept trying to push the aladin PRIME, with a lot less features, which they had in stock. They never mentioned ordering the TEC to me, I think they prefer that someone walks out of the shop with whatever they have instead of ordering anything else.