Light Squadron

Dear fellows,

I would like to build a small light squadron for wreck filming. The goal is a small, but usable lighting system which gives you the opportunity the light underwater as in the Titanic documentary of Jim Cameron. Of course I do not want to build a surface mounted light system with 12 000 watt output. I would like to make a diver operated independent platform with 4 our 6 HID lights (for example the Halcyon Apollo 3*2x24 or 2*2x50 HIDs). I think 4 or 6 light head (with less output on each) can produce much more usable light than a single 200 watt HMI. The pure cost of 3 dual 24 W HID or 2 dual 50 W HID is similar to the cost of only one 200 W HMI.

Is it worth to design and build this platform or I should go and buy only one HMI?

The goal is to make "feature-film" look lighting for wreck documentaries in dark, deep (60-80 m) water (eg. lakes in Europe)

Opinions? Experiences?

Jules

Jules

Last Nov, I saw a very nice 200W HMI system that was neutral and had a very wide beam, 1 hr burn time and basically brighter than my old Halcyon. It was custom made for a feature film. I'll try find the name of the guy who made them. He is in california somewhere near San Diego.

In designing a system like that, don't you first want to identify the wreck and the shots you want to shoot? Then lighting it would be easier... esp if you want to try new ways of lighting besides the normal lamps on camera.

A bank of lights is great for lighting up a big area. But how wide is your lens? Planning a wreck shoot is probably the best way to determine your lighting needs.

Jules,

I've been diving with 4 Greenforce HID lights on my housing. I had 4 HID100 (30W) lightheads connected to two batteries. Burntime with the 4 lights on was over 2.5 hours. We are now moving on from that system to a setup with one or more light divers in addition to lights on the housing.

The light diver uses the same 4 lights mounted on a custom light bar, and on the camera I have 2 x HID250W (50 W). Our goal is to film deep wrecks as well.

Are you based in Europe?

Peter

Found a picture of my old setup

Drew:

thanks, I hope you will find the name. According to the wreck: yes, I have my specified wreck in the Lake Leman (aka Lake Geneva), it is called Hirondell, and lays about 60 meters down. It is an old steamer from the XIX. century. The cold water conserved the wood etc, so it is a quite interesting wreck, at least the pictures I saw about it seems very nice. I will dive the wreck in the following months, so I will have a closer look, and I can decide how can it be shot well. Actually I would like to make a wreck-panorama (stitching together sequences in Shake), I hope it will works. My FOV is 94 degree.

PCDiver:

Your plan sound similar to mine. :-) Yes, I am based in Europe, actually not in Hungary, I live now in Geneva, Switzerland. And you?

Jules

Jules,

I live in Antwerp (Belgium).

If you want to create a wreck panorama, you might want to look into using a scooter. Do you use rebreathers for your deep dives or OC?

Peter

On panorama I mean this: Panorama wreck

I currently use OC (Trimix), but I would like to switch for SCR (RB80 or equivalent). (I am certified for Dragers, but they are not suitable for serius diving missions.) I was considering buying CCRs (Megalodon or Evolution) but all my friends sais not to buy a CCR if I do not want to die. Anyhow, I feel, I have to switch for SCR, because the stage and deko tanks (3-4) are too much for handling together with my Phenom housing. I uitilize now a "sherpa" approach for deep video, but it cost to much to pay all the gases for youself and the buddies also.

Hi Jules,

The old debate: SCR vs CCR.

There are lots of rumors that originate from people that don't have a clue about CCR diving. BTW. It is really an OLD debate. For technical rebreather diving, the tool of choice these days tends to be a CCR, not a SCR. The current debate is more ECCR vs MCCR.

I bought an Inspiration (CCR) and I'm very glad I did. Why?

Gas management is still an issue with a SCR. It isn't with a CCR, unless you have a leak somewhere or you breath out via the nose. (very bad CCR practice). I even removed the gauges from my onboard tanks. My average consumption per hour is 25 bar of O2 (independent of depth) and around 30 bar of diluent (depends a bit on depth) out of 3 liter tanks. That is only 75 liter per hour!!! This will be much higher on SCR.

Other aspects that go against an SCR:

* bubbles

* no constant PPO2

* much higher gas use

* you have to choose your gasses for the depth planned

* longer deco times

* becomes much more complex if you go deeper (multiple gasses, gas switches). On CCR you stay on your bottom gas, without switching to travel gasses or deco gasses. The only variable is the percentage of O2 in the mix.

* not optimal for multi-level dives

* WOB (work of breath) tends to be higher

* An SCR can kill you as easily as a CCR

If I had to start again, I would again go for the Inspiration (ECCR) but I would also consider a Copis Meg (MCCR).

An ECCR is an electronically controlled CCR. An MCCR is a closed circuit rebreather with a constant O2 flow just below the diver's oxygen metabolism rate. The diver has to add oxigen manually (once every 15 minutes or so) to make up for the difference. An ECCR does everything automatically.

Let me know if you have specific questions. If you need feedback on SCR vs CCR, you could also post your question on www.rebreatherworld.com.

Peter

Jules

Last Nov, I saw a very nice 200W HMI system that was neutral and had a very wide beam, 1 hr burn time and basically brighter than my old Halcyon. It was custom made for a feature film. I'll try find the name of the guy who made them. He is in california somewhere near San Diego.

In designing a system like that, don't you first want to identify the wreck and the shots you want to shoot? Then lighting it would be easier... esp if you want to try new ways of lighting besides the normal lamps on camera.

A bank of lights is great for lighting up a big area. But how wide is your lens? Planning a wreck shoot is probably the best way to determine your lighting needs.

Drew ,

Sounds like you are thinking of Louis Prezelin of Pacific Vision.

Here is the link to his lights - 200 watt HMI

They are like the sun.

Well, thanks for the detailed post. I am a registered user on the rebreatherworld, I used to read it when it comes again: I need to buy a rebreather...

Last october in Antibes I tried an Inspiration. It was very comfortable. It showed all the advantages I need for easy diving... Well, I do not like stage bottles, deko bottles, I like diving with my camera. It is not my intention to make deep diving records, my intention is to make excellent uw film about wrecks. If they lay down under the recreational limit I have to go down to take the shoot. I want it to make it in a safe way.

How long are using your CCR?

Actually I feel sorry not to meet earlier, I was at the Nelos festival in Antwerp, I guess you were there also...

Well, thanks for the detailed post. I am a registered user on the rebreatherworld, I used to read it when it comes again: I need to buy a rebreather...

 

Last october in Antibes I tried an Inspiration. It was very comfortable. It showed all the advantages I need for easy diving... Well, I do not like stage bottles, deko bottles, I like diving with my camera. It is not my intention to make deep diving records, my intention is to make excellent uw film about wrecks. If they lay down under the recreational limit I have to go down to take the shoot. I want it to make it in a safe way.

 

How long are using your CCR?

 

Actually I feel sorry not to meet earlier, I was at the Nelos festival in Antwerp, I guess you were there also...

Jules,

I think we are trying to achieve the same thing. (-:

I've been diving my Inspiration since 2005. And I'm still alive! It took a lot of hours to get my bouyancy back to the level that I had on OC. But now it is even better. It is so nice to be able to continue breathing without going up or down. No headaches anymore because of skipbreathing.

In Egypt we were diving up to 70 meters. We had two bailout bottles (12 liters alu) with us. We rigged them sidemount. No problem in the water because with the sidemount rigging they are streamlined with your boddy. Worked like a charm. Even in very strong currents (The Brothers).

I didn't make it to the Nelos film festival. I was in bed, sick.

I'm now working on an integrated communication system in my rebreather that doesn't need a full face mask.

Peter

Drew ,

 

Sounds like you are thinking of Louis Prezelin of Pacific Vision.

 

Here is the link to his lights - 200 watt HMI

 

They are like the sun.

Nope not Louis... he's in Santa Barbara. I've sent an email to the logistics guy on the film. Should hopefully know soon.

Peter... Cis Lunar still rocks Actually seriously I like the Evo over the Inspiration. 5kg is 5kg less to bring along.

Ok,

guys, I won't be at home in the followong days: I must go to Moscow to watch uw movies. I'll be back on Monday.

I have talked to Mr. Prezelin (he was very kind), but his ligths cost more than a Halcyon HMI light.

Jules

Peter... Cis Lunar still rocks Actually seriously I like the Evo over the Inspiration. 5kg is 5kg less to bring along.

The Cis Lunar is probably going to get a second life. Rumours are that Poseidon is going to build a new version.

Add a travelframe to the Inspiration and you get a rebreather will full scrubber capacity, less weight than the evo and it can be used with any size tank.

Do you also dive a rebreather Drew? It would be interesting to find out how many videographers use rebreathers.

Peter

I was certified with the Cis Lunar in the 90s when it was supposedly the "safer" machine compared to the "killspiration". Then I became a "killspiration" user and still very occasionally rent one for shoots that require it.

I still haven't bought one yet because I have enough crap to lug around.

Thinking seriously of CCR or SCR myself just to get rid of the bubble-roar and get closer to the fish.

Was thinking of an Inspiration or an Evolution but no matter what anyone says it's a lot more hassle than slinging on an open circuit set. Just had a guy on a Burma liveaboard with an Inspiration and he was well occupied with it between dives. Aside from the filling, scruber changing, testing etc. I think he had 2 sensors go faulty on him. What with the camera and the editing I just don't have time for that.

However now the boat I'm working is finally tinking of offering nitrox (upto 38% with membrane system) I'm now thinking of SCR as a manageable "middle-ground". I'm certified on the Dolphin but someone said check out the Submatix rebreather as being more streamlined. Anyone know if it's any good?

I'm back.

I am also certified for Dolphin and Ray, but they are IMHO not well design for uw use at all. I would never choose a Drager instead of a OC. They are terrible uw.

In Moscow, at the Golden Dolphin festival, I was cheked the Evolution and a RON passive SCR. Both were nice products. When I consider only uw filming, the evo could be te best choice, but if I want to have a spare system, the RON (or the RB80) is the better choise. But with these system you will need a stage tanks also (if you do not want to use after 21 meter as an OC).

And, by the way, I am happy to announce that my film won the first price at the Moscow "Golden Dolphin" film competition in the "wreck" category...

Jules

Peter,

Love the light setup; wish I could afford it. Everyone I know who uses the Green Force lights seems to love them. Expensive tho,

Steve B)

Jules,

congrats on winning the first prize. Can we see your work somewhere on the niet?

Nick,

Have a look at the Pelagian. It is build in Thailand. (www.rebreatherlab.com) It is very low profile and it got very good comments.

Steve,

I love the lights. I've been using them for years. And the customer support is exceptionally good.

Jules,

Have you got a link to the festival.. I entered my film about the wreck of the Faroud off Malta in that catagory. Obviously I didn't win so congrats...What was your film called.???

Actually I'd be amazed if it gets anywhere now seeing its was made in 2004/05 using my old TRV950 and some dodgey editing system

Well done again, great achievement

Dive safe

DeanB

Looks as though I came third.. For my 'Dodgey' production...I'll take that comment back.

Thats now five awards for my first film..Come on baby !!!!!

Dive safe

DeanB

Sorry make that six..I forgot the spanish Telenatura 2006 festival..

Silly me...