Question for the pros

To the Pros,

What type of setup would you all suggest for divers who are just getting their fins wet with

underwater video?

Recommend a setup that would give a semipro look. This would serve as a foundation for us beginners, so

that when we decide to drop the heavy dollars on equipment, we will be equipped with knowledge and skills

as to how to use all the features.

Looking froward to hearing from all of you.

Safe diving and Happy filming!

tough question to be honest.

Not a lot of the smaller cameras come with full manual control over things like shutter, noise, and iris. Instead they have "exposure compensation" which isn't really the same thing.

So, to learn things in the full manual mode your options are limited. ALthough, it is not necessary to shoot in manual to get quality results, you will have more say over things like depth of field and gain (noise) etc

There are a lot of good cameras giving good results at the moment.

What sort of price range are you looking into?

Some suggestions for cameras to do some research on are:

Sony HC5 and HC7 (brand new, not tested under water)

Sony FX7 (again, not tested underwater)

Canon and Panasonic also have cameras in this area but i am not so familiar with the models, i am sure Drew can chime in on that.

Also, for any UW setup i would really suggest a housing/camera combo that gives you access to manual white balance. This is a huge thing if you ask me, especially if you don't want to spend hours on post processing trying to extract the colours in editing. Also, you want a housing and camera that can give you manual focus.

Yes to keep housing prices low for the masses, manual controls and good wide angle ports are often kept off but if you want to learn and achive better video you need a housing that offers manual controls with a good wide angle.

The larger HDV cameras with a good wide angle port will put out a better image than the smaller ones if you are after best quality but if you want to shoot for fun or day vids on dive boats then the smaller HDV ones will be fine.

Up close with a set of lights the smaller HDV cameras can put out a wonderfull image.

It all boils down to your budget and goals.

A good buddy of mine wanted to keep it simple and portable. He purchased accordingly. He then compared the results he was getting with his set up with what my set up could deliver. He abandoned his set up in short order and purchased mine.

My point is not that my set up is the only way to go...there are a couple of good choices right now that deliver high quality results. You have to ask yourself what level of results you are willing to settle on. Do you want that discovery HD look (well close)? Are you shooting just for fun home videos? Are you looking to get serious in short order? How much of a quality and resolution junkie are you? How much coin can you drop on this?

If your answers tend to the higher end, don't invest too much on the lower end set ups. Get into a Z1/Fx1 level set up and start working on your shooting. If dollars aren't there or your need for the high end not sure, look at that Sony HC5/7 or Panasonic options for smaller cams.

good luck.

-shawn

A good buddy of mine had a Porsche and let me have a go in it.. <_<

I never sold my van and bought a Porsche because I couldn't afford it..Plus i make do with what i've got..and he's got a small winky as well

You just have to keep going back over old ground...

Dive safe

Dean(Go A1)B

I remember when I bought my first motorcycle, a Yamaha 250 Enduro in 79. I thought I'd never outgrow it, it seemed so big and powerful to a new rider such as I was. I sold it within 3 months because I outgrew it and bought a Suzuki 550. I thought I'd never outgrow it, it seemed so big and powerful to a new rider such as I was. I rode it for a year and bought a Suzuki 1000 with all the bells and whistles. I thought I'd never outgrow it. I've been riding my Harley FXR for about 12 years now and still love it.

The metaphor is that you should get the best that you can afford and grow into it. Even with the highest end cams, there is much you can do with them in a far simpler manner. You do need to start off manually white balancing, you do not even need to shoot in manual at first....but as you grow into it you will be glad you have the tools at your disposal rather than quickly get buyers remorse and have to shell out for both a new camcorder that meets your newly developed and earned skills as well as the housing which is probably much more than the camcorder itself. Don't forget about lights, they are almost as important as the camcorder/housing itself.

My 2 cents

Steve B)

I remember when I bought my first motorcycle, a Yamaha 250 Enduro in 79. I thought I'd never outgrow it, it seemed so big and powerful to a new rider such as I was. I sold it within 3 months because I outgrew it and bought a Suzuki 550. I thought I'd never outgrow it, it seemed so big and powerful to a new rider such as I was. I rode it for a year and bought a Suzuki 1000 with all the bells and whistles. I thought I'd never outgrow it. I've been riding my Harley FXR for about 12 years now and still love it.

The metaphor is that you should get the best that you can afford and grow into it. Even with the highest end cams, there is much you can do with them in a far simpler manner. You do need to start off manually white balancing, you do not even need to shoot in manual at first....but as you grow into it you will be glad you have the tools at your disposal rather than quickly get buyers remorse and have to shell out for both a new camcorder that meets your newly developed and earned skills as well as the housing which is probably much more than the camcorder itself. Don't forget about lights, they are almost as important as the camcorder/housing itself.

My 2 cents

Steve B)

But please don't shell out for a motorbike thats too big and fast for your experience because the guy next door tells you its a better bike because he's got one...

A) Take your time to get to know your level,,

B) you might not be as good a rider as you thought and end up with a bike collecting dust in the garage..

Dive safe

Dean(where is this going)B

I don't ride motorcycles...so i can't comment. I do film underwater if anyone wants to talk about that:)

Hey thats really strange guys talking about bikes.

We have been looking at one of these to go for a ride around the place.

Not really a underwater housing though.....

Thank you all for your advice.

I need to let all this information sink in.

Wagsy and Dean B

What are the pros and cons of the A1 underwater and on land?

Ronrosa,

If you are out there, have you had a chance to take your FX7 underwater?

Safe Diving and Be good

Ronrosa,

 

If you are out there, have you had a chance to take your FX7 underwater?

Yeah Ron, Have you?

(that's a sore subject with him Wetfish as he's still waiting for a housing)

Thank you all for your advice.

 

I need to let all this information sink in.

 

Wagsy and Dean B

 

What are the pros and cons of the A1 underwater and on land?

For less money, I'd consider the HDR-HC7. Better resolution at a lower price.($1399 vs. $2199 w/rebate)

The A1U is the "Pro" version of my HC1. The substantial differences being XLR audio inputs (which you remove to dive with anyway) and an "assign" button. Which is nice for doing manual white balance as Amphibico's EVO SE (among others) provide a control to touch it while underwater. There are other housing manufacturers who provide a rod to hit the touchscreen as an alternative. And they're cheaper...from Ocean Images or Ikelite, both reputable mfr's.

The HC7 has better resolution and manual control over all the functions that Wagsy mentioned as important previously. Others may not agree but I find that a lot of the time just letting the camera run in auto mode does a better job than I probably can doing everything manually. But I'm just shooting for myself, not for any sort of production.

Housings are also already available for the HC7 since only minor changes were needed to be made to the previous HC3 versions from some mfr's.

Another issue, at least for me is portability. My HC1/EVO go in my roller carry-on. An FX7/FX1 based system will need to be checked for sure - at least the housing afaik. But of course you will get better results with an FX* since they're 3CCD/3CMOS vs. single CMOS in the HC5/7. What sold me was that for the price of an FX1, I bought my camera and housing. And 1080I HDV on my 1080P HDTV looks pretty darned good...

The A1 apart from what people are saying 'Does' produce some good footage underwater...Although I will admit it does start showing its true colours at depth...So to speak. Whether you can over come this with lights I will find out in the future as I haven't got any yet... I have (so's Wags) produced some amazing sequences with the A1 so it can't all be bad but you need GOOD conditions. I am now in discussions with the BBC NHU about my footage so that proves a point. I concede that there a better cams on the market..Obviously. But it all comes down to what you can afford..I have talked to people Influenced by these forums who are thinking about putting themselves in debt just to buy a camera for holiday use in the hope they are going to be the next big thing.. I find it amazing people do not consider this when spouting off. Hey look what I've got..Although its mainly advice and in humour, we have to be careful, This sh** ain't cheap. Its not the camera but the person behind it that makes the true difference.

Personally I'd wait for field results from the FX7..Ronrosa would love to have one but they are still in the post..So to speak.

Keep to your level and your bank balance...Unless your Eric or Drew then go RED...

Dive safe

DeanB

Edited by moderator for language

I've decided to stay with the A1 though I just posted the Gates housing for it for sale in the classifieds. I figure that the returns on a different cam will not really pay off big dividends until the cam comes out that goes directly to hard drive like the Panasonic. Eventually there will be bigger P2 or similar cards that will hold a significant number of files to make it worthy of using underwater.

Steve B)

Wags, you can always get to uw scooters and attach them to the side of that new bike you're getting. That would make for some interesting footage.

Come on then Dean, let's be seeing some footage from your beloved A1!

So Steve, what you going to put your A1 in if the Gates gets bought?

Wetfish

First of all, don't listen to any of us.

Now that is clear I'd first put together a list of goals and budget.

1. You say a semipro look. As in the housing has to look semi-pro or the image? Do you intend to go "professional" and in what sense of the word? Broadcast? Dive shop? Do you just want images you can sell (which would encompass anything from cellphones to 35mm film if the clip is rare enough)?

2. The good cameras allow manual control for all aspects as Mike V said, but the better cameras give you extra control like knee, gain and blacks etc. Sure a lot can be done in post but again that depends if you are going into video as deeply as to worry about that.

3. You'll find that as you grow, your demands for features also grows. But that takes time and usually by then the product cycle is at an end.

So to end, instead of asking for broad recommendations, if you first decide your goals and budget, it would be easier to then recommend a system that fits those criteria. Otherwise you get muddled with low to high end options which is makes your decision making a lot more difficult.

Drew, I tried all that,

But got slagged down as a result...

Just got to be big enough to recognise your own limits, Financial and Abilitiy...And don't listen to the critics..Well too much.

And a lot of what you said..

Dive safe

DeanB

Hey Nick,

The new housing just came in yesterday and I haven't even opened the box yet, too busy writing a software review. Went to L & M

Steve B)

Well Dean, your decision process was different. If you want to hang with the big boys, the toys automatically get bigger. The details become important. Your dealings with NHU shoudl tell you that.

However, for those producing their own shows, you still have to think about format. Is HDV acceptable as a program format? Not if you ask NGC or BBC. But MANY independent programs are even shot on SD still, mostly in countries that don't have widespread HD content yet.

How many HD channels replay SD programs in a box? Quite a few.

You are caught between your own budget and what you want to do. You've found weaknesses in your system already. Now you're looking for ways to make it work. Never easy but as they say, live and learn.

As I said above...

And a lot of what you said..

I could have gone for the Z1..Believe me and I wouldn't have been selling my arse down the docks to pay it off, but it was too big for what I intentionally wanted..Also like people said before and I think you stated its the first offering of the HDV blocks, Wait and see what comes up..The A1 has suited a purpose and I have had some great footage..Yes If I have had a Z1 it would have been better..Maybe..But the small guy worked wonders. Anyway this 'discussion' could and will go on and on. But hey as long as we do some good in the long run...Who cares how big you willy is.

Dive safe

Dean (peewee)B