MWB issues with Sony A1

On a recent trip to the Red Sea I had great difficulty getting my Sony A1 to manually WB (Ikelite housing and Pro-video lights with UWL-100 lens, no filter). I used everything from painted fins to white slates, lights on and off. This was all the more frustrating as using the exact same kit (minus the wide angle lens) on the same dive sites in July I experienced hardly any problems.

On pressing the MWB button, the icon in the display would flash rapidly as expected but the white balance wouldn't change and the icon would then flash continuously at a slower rate. I take this to mean it's been unable to establish white balance.

From reading through the various threads I've noticed references to difficulties manually white balancing beyond certain depths - in the region of 12-15m. A lot of the time I was trying to white balance deeper than this but the problem also occurred at shallower depths. Presumably the 12-15m quoted is more to do with water turbidity and light than actual depth? The water was frequently more turbid and of course the sun weaker in Nov than in July.

Any advice much appreciated.

On pressing the MWB button, the icon in the display would flash rapidly as expected but the white balance wouldn't change and the icon would then flash continuously at a slower rate. I take this to mean it's been unable to establish white balance.

 

From reading through the various threads I've noticed references to difficulties manually white balancing beyond certain depths - in the region of 12-15m. A lot of the time I was trying to white balance deeper than this but the problem also occurred at shallower depths. Presumably the 12-15m quoted is more to do with water turbidity and light than actual depth? The water was frequently more turbid and of course the sun weaker in Nov than in July.

 

Any advice much appreciated.

You take it correctly. It is caused by low light and this may be caused by depth (obviously), time of day, turbidity etc. or maybe you have something set on the camera that was cutting down the light. If you had a filter on (red filter) that may do it, but also check if you accidently turned on an ND filter, or turned up the shutter speed or something like that to reduce the light entering the camera. I have had the same problem and found that if I open up the iris to overexpose slightly, the MWB will lock in.

Hope that helps.

Josh

As Josh says it's available light but it's also about contrast. With low light, the contrast is less so the WB sensor goes nuts.

While the Sony A1-U does not have an ND filter, it is an excellent cam that simply comes with some problems for UW work. On a recent excursion to the Socorros Islands, I found that if I white balanced using my white fins with the UR filter in place, I had no difficulties. The problem is, for whatever reason, when you are using lights and trying to white balance....then it can be problematic. I'm headed back to Lembeh in April and if there is one place you need lights it is for the night dives which you'd be crazy to miss. I do have concerns about this upcoming trip.

At Dema I bought one of those super macro wet lens from Backscatter that fit onto the port of the L & M housing. Have any of you used this before. What port did you put it over? L & M doesn't have a flat port I don't think. I have their standard, super wide and macro lens. For macro work, what is the better lens to use the wetlens over?

Steve B)

Which cam and L&M housing are you using Steve?

I've been using the Sony A1-U in a Light and Motion housing, L & M HIDs as well. Fine for topside tho a bit light for handholding. Can be quirky uw. Maybe it is just me. Sometimes I wish I were still shooting SD

Steve B)

I'm headed back to Lembeh in April and if there is one place you need lights it is for the night dives which you'd be crazy to miss. I do have concerns about this upcoming trip.

I don't know about the A1, but my FX7 worked perfectly with lights on night dives at Manado using the AUTO WB Also on day dives on black sand, and coral rubble, using lights for macro shots, I found it best to flip out the filter and switch to AWB, colours were great. I could then reverse the process for wider angle shots during the dive.

Happy New Year to you all.

Roger

Hi Roger, team,

I've been using and HVR-A1P in an Amphibico housing for shooting dailies for a year and a half.

I don't often use lights, I occasionally night dive. When I use lights it's a single Fisheye HG20DX.

With natural light I have had no issues Whitebalancing using the Assign button with and without the flip-down UR PRO filter, with and without the light. I always white balance with a white slate

But the camera will not get a whitebalance (ie the icon flashes) if I try to whitebalance in natural light without the URPro filter below about 8 metres.

Also the camera will not whitebalance if Exposure is set on manual.

good luck

SImon

Simon

When you say the camera will not MWB if exp is set to manual, is this at depth or are you talking in general? Is the lanc plugged in?

I ask because the HVR-A1 can MWB regardless of exp mode.

Hi Drew

The LANC is plugged in but the exposure and MWB on the assign button are mechanical controls on the Amphibico housing.

The camera will try to MWB when Exposure is set to manual but invariably it will not set a whitebalance i.e. the icon continues to flash.

By habit now when I need to whitebalance I will set Exposure back to Auto perform the whitebalance and then go back to manual exposure.

Thanks for all the replies - really useful stuff.

So should I invest in a UR Pro filter? There's a push-fit one available for the UWL-100, sounds like it may make life a bit easier.

Simon,

The HVR-A1 will MWB in manual exposure. In fact I just tested mine, with a lanc plugged in and not.

I ask about the lanc because some of the older lanc PCBs couldn't access telemacro mode with lanc plugged in. I can't remember exactly which manufacturers right now but the issue was there. I seriously doubt it's anything except settings.

MWB requires adequate light and contrast to work with. Sometimes having too much light can also cause it to fail. Next time if in a day dive, try using the sun to MWB.

Geoff

I think filters are great for aiding in color. It's always good to have access to one.

Simon,

The HVR-A1 will MWB in manual exposure. In fact I just tested mine, with a lanc plugged in and not.

I ask about the lanc because some of the older lanc PCBs couldn't access telemacro mode with lanc plugged in. I can't remember exactly which manufacturers right now but the issue was there. I seriously doubt it's anything except settings.

MWB requires adequate light and contrast to work with. Sometimes having too much light can also cause it to fail. Next time if in a day dive, try using the sun to MWB.

One thing I did notice with my A1 was that sometimes pressing the assign button (set to MWB) would cause it to go into Expanded Focus. This is with the Ikelite image reverser plugged into the lanc port.

One thing I did notice with my A1 was that sometimes pressing the assign button (set to MWB) would cause it to go into Expanded Focus. This is with the Ikelite image reverser plugged into the lanc port.

Hi Geoff

I've not come across that quirk with the Amphibico housing and its LANC set-up.

cheers

Simon

Well the issue of the EWB is when it does the balancing... before or after processing. If after, then shutter and exposure settings can affect it.

I never could get a straight answer from Sony. Industrial secrets and all that.

As Josh says it's available light but it's also about contrast. With low light, the contrast is less so the WB sensor goes nuts.

I'm not so sure about this...

I have the same setup (Sony A1 & Ikelite), and have had a lot of trouble with MWB. While diving in the Solomons last April, I discovered something very interesting. I was at around 70ft, and of course the MWB wouldn't lock. I then put on my red filter (standard Ikelite red filter), and tried again. It locked right away.

What I found interesting is that a red filter does not add red light; it subtracts blue and green light. The sensor had less light to work with, yet it was able to balance. So, my theory is that there is something in the firmware on the camera that looks at the amount of shift that it needs to do for under water and decides that it can't be right and refuses to adjust. What I will try on my next trip is to MWB every 10ft to see if the small incremental adjustments are enough to fool the firmware into balancing.

I don't want to just use the filter at depth because the A1 doesn't have the best low-light capabilities, and I'm trying to give the camera as much light as possible.

--Mark

Dr Mark..do you plan on wbing every 10 ft with video lights on or off?

Steve B)

I'm not so sure about this...

 

I have the same setup (Sony A1 & Ikelite), and have had a lot of trouble with MWB. While diving in the Solomons last April, I discovered something very interesting. I was at around 70ft, and of course the MWB wouldn't lock. I then put on my red filter (standard Ikelite red filter), and tried again. It locked right away.

 

What I found interesting is that a red filter does not add red light; it subtracts blue and green light. The sensor had less light to work with, yet it was able to balance. So, my theory is that there is something in the firmware on the camera that looks at the amount of shift that it needs to do for under water and decides that it can't be right and refuses to adjust. What I will try on my next trip is to MWB every 10ft to see if the small incremental adjustments are enough to fool the firmware into balancing.

 

I don't want to just use the filter at depth because the A1 doesn't have the best low-light capabilities, and I'm trying to give the camera as much light as possible.

 

--Mark

Sounds like the HC-7 suffers from the same. I have to do the same as WB without filter with the HC7 at depth doesn't seem to work unless the water is amazingly clear and bright. Fine for WA shots but my lights will turn anything nearby a disgusting red.

I then put on my red filter (standard Ikelite red filter), and tried again. It locked right away.

DrMark

WB works by adjusting the gain on RGB. When you have strong GB, the contrast is lost. Putting the filter on increases the contrast which is why the camera managed to WB. As I said, MWB is a function of enough light and contrast with a background that allows the WB to find what it thinks is neutral.

Fine for WA shots but my lights will turn anything nearby a disgusting red.

Pakman

Why don't you WB to the lights? Your background will automatically look blue if you do that and no more red foreground subjects. The video by Peter Lombar is a good example.

Dr Mark..do you plan on wbing every 10 ft with video lights on or off?

Steve B)

It would be during the day with lights off. My video lights only reasonably illuminate 10-15 feet, so the white balance with lights is independent of depth.

--Mark