Port mounts designs

I had a small flood on my last trip. It happend just after I rolled back from a zodiac. I saw it right away and kept camera port down so no damage happened (just a little splash of water on lens front).

I believe the leak was through port mount. I checked oring before that dive and I don't think I made an obvious user error. That was my 3rd flood so far (the camera was handed to me into water in other cases). It's difficult to be sure but my impression is that it was port mount in at least 2 cases.

I pay attention to orings and assemble everything carefully.

Anyway, I'm starting to develop some trust issue with my port mount (Ikelite).

Do you think that other solutions are more reliable?

I had a small flood on my last trip. It happend just after I rolled back from a zodiac. I saw it right away and kept camera port down so no damage happened (just a little splash of water on lens front).

I believe the leak was through port mount. I checked oring before that dive and I don't think I made an obvious user error. That was my 3rd flood so far (the camera was handed to me into water in other cases). It's difficult to be sure but my impression is that it was port mount in at least 2 cases.

I pay attention to orings and assemble everything carefully.

 

Anyway, I'm starting to develop some trust issue with my port mount (Ikelite).

 

Do you think that other solutions are more reliable?

There have long been religious wars between users and manufacturers about the Ikelite port mount design. One way to look at it is this: Ikelite has bee around a long time -- if it were a serious design flaw, it might have been changed by now. I know many have requested that Ikelite add a third clip or adjust the design in other ways, but there has not been any move in that direction that I know of. Having said that, they have gone to more modular port designs recently, though the design changes do not affect the interfact between the housing and the port.

Now for my person opinion, based on experience: I have had a few floods with Ikelite housings. One was totally my fault. The other two or three occurred at or near the surface and occurred at the port to housing interface. So, my next housing was a Sea&Sea and I'veused that for the last five years and never had a drop of water get inside. I just switched over to a Seatool and will let you know. More expensive -- yes. No Ikelite TTL board -- yes. Those are the trade-offs. One thing I can say is that make sure you keep the port O-ring lubricated so it doesn't twist when to insert the port. I think that is a major reason many people have trouble with it. Bottom line is that only you can decide whether or not you are comfortable with the arrangement.

Mike

I have once managed to get a small amount of water into my Ikelite port - and that was when there was a ripping current - I mean really high and far too nasty to attempt taking pictures in at all. After the event I wonder if the port was moving against the mount (rocking) and allowing a small amount of water in ?

Mechanically a third latch would not do much as the latches in this design just stop the port falling off and take no part in the seal aside from that.

I must admit I do feel uncomfortable that the ike 8" dome can rotate on the surface - at any more than a couple of metres it does not rotate at all - I may go to the gaffer tape fix for this - if only to make me 'feel' better about it.

It is interesting mechanically that the port can move relative to the housing in this design - to be honest I have not compared other housings / port interfaces to the Ikelite - it might be that some form of cam to mechanically restrain the port relative to the housing would be an advantage. After all why let it float the way that it does?

Other than by floating in this way it does take up the inevitable part and temperature expansion tolerances inherent with plastic parts - mmm have I just answered my own question?

<edit> By the way Andrzej I did like the B&W from your trip taken with the Wratten 21.

Paul C

Thanks Mike,

Founded your post very informative and please do keep us posted on your findings regards the Seatool housing.

Thanks

Aqua

I had the trademark trickle of water in my Ike housing on many occasions. I never had a flood though, but that didn't give me any great confidence.

I've upgraded my housing to Aquatica, and the port mount was one of many points that made me pay the extra dollars.

I'm brand new to Ike housings (or any DSLR housings for that matter) but would tend to think that while a 3rd clip wouldn't do much for the true 'watertightness' of the seal at surface, it would be enough positive reinforcement to prevent rocking. The dome would still probably rotate a bit freely until you were under pressure. (I can tell already I'll have to really watch to put it on 'right side up' with relation to the dome shade when assembling, since I don't like the idea of rotating it into position...no matter how well lubed the o-ring, just seems like a risk.)

Of course adding a 3rd clip with a 'split' shoe facing the port, that fits over a raised boss on the dome, would allow prevention of both rocking and rotation, and would be a positive assurance of proper dome orientation (assuming you put the dome cover on so with the tooth and split shoe aligned, it was right-side-up). This might require adjusting the dome cover rotation the first time after tightening a different extension on the port, since that's a screw joint, but I suspect I'll be exchanging extensions less often than I'll be mounting/dismounting the entire port.

Ok, Ikelite port fasteners scare me too but:

1. have experience with macro and dome ports on the F100 and D50 housing and will soon have some experience with the ports on a D300 housing...

2. rotating a fastened port is actually necessary sometimes with a dome port (to align the shade)

3. i have even added a medium-sized focus light with a ring clamp to macro port - still no problem...

just have not had ANY problem with the port seal other than having absolute confidence...so i throw in a couple of tampons for protection

...so i throw in a couple of tampons for protection

Please excuse my ignorance, but does that work?

Steve

I've always believed that a threaded port mount is the most reliable. Snug it hand tight & you're good to go. Even a small trickle of water is not acceptable. Your housing should be totally dry all the time or you have a developing problem. One reason I have a Nexus housing - very reliable seals on everything. Dome shades should be a separate part, not relying on dome rotation for proper alignment.

Please excuse my ignorance, but does that work?

 

Steve

Hi Steve,

Seems to work for the girls...

Just make sure that you use the "panty pads". Take the sticky tape off and fold the pad in half and slide it under the camera tray. I've seen how the Tampons 'grow' when water is added, and I certainly wouldn't want that sort of 'growth' inside my housing...

As for Ikelite owners who accept a small port trickle as 'par with the course', you must be either "bonkers" or have way too much money...

Usual release form signed...IMHO

Bruce...

I agree that any trickle, even a few drops of water, getting in the housing is scary and reading these posts has not been good for my peace of mind. On the other hand I've been using two different Ikelite housings since 2001 (probably 60-70 dives on them combined) and have not once seen a single drop go in, and never felt insecure about the sealing method. As Mike said, Ike housings with this design have been around for a long time and, in relative terms, they are sold in large numbers. Moreover, I've been reading wetpixel for a few years now and if this is a common problem then I am very surprised that this does not come up regularly.

For cases where it did happen I would want to know if it is a housing/port/o-ring quality control issue or is it the result of user-assembly; too much/little grease, wrong grease, dirt, holding the rig by the port ... I can live with the grease/dirt issues, just be careful when you assemble, but it is harder to control the person that hands you your rig on the boat.

Posts that report a problem tend to stimulate replies by others that suggest a fix or have experienced a similar problem, but not normally from people that have no problem. So, to find out if this is a real Ikelite issue or something that is bound to happen if you take cameras UW often enough, we need to hear from a good subsection of Ikelite users. Perhaps some of you who regularly teach UWphotography classes can comment on whether this is a specific problem for Ikelite housings. Given the implications of this thread, I think it is important to figure out what is going on, if anything, for both Ikelite and its users.

Bart

Plenty of products have been around "a long time" but were poorly designed. Being sold in the market is not an indicator of good engineering. A good port design should be brainless to maintain and absolutely reliable. Anyone who has to slave over o-ring maintenance and pray that the seals hold is not using the right product.

I also believe the Nexus design is the best but I've had no problem with Subal or Seacam either. There's more than one way to make things work.

Amigos,

Do a search on "floods", "ports" or whatever and you will find posts from users who have had the sad event of a leak or flood with almost all brands. I myself have owned (and sold) Aquatica, Light and motion and now exclusively Ikelite. But I also actually USE my Ikelite housing a LOT every year, and have numerous local and worldwide customers......None with floods through the port (knock wood) with dozens of users.

I contend teaching someone what to look for setting up their rig and a couple simple procedures getting in the water and such is 99% of problems. I also am a big proponent with many systems (including Ikelite in one port arrangement) of DUCT TAPE. Which chafes some users who don't want to defile their systems visual impact

The shade orientation thing mentioned isn't applicable to Ikelite port mounts as all you have to do is look at the wide parts and line them up at 12 and 6 o'clock while pressing in evenly your well greased o-ring equipped (not GLOPPY) port. I also teach people once the port locks have "dropped in" you can actually pick up your housing by the port proving it's securely attached!

The endless engineering versus actually building and selling a product debate will never be decided......I and buddies have modified a few things over the years to meet our needs. But to each his own....

YMMV

dhaas

Please excuse my ignorance, but does that work?

 

Steve

Hope I'm doing this right...

Does it work? well, the camera housing and ports do not leak normally so that's hard to say, normally:

In the past, when i had a small piece of candy wrapper in the port connection, the protection helped...also when i dropped my rig and cracked a wide port...also when my manual focus knob on the macro port stripped...

and the looks you get when they check your gear...also fun to point them out to the ladies on the boat...furthur makes it possible to refer to your rig with the "b" word

furthur makes it possible to refer to your rig with the "b" word

Steve

First: if any manufacturer had a design issue with their port sealing system they wouldn't be in business long - if nothing else, consumer protection laws would soon sort this out. And in any case manufacturers have a very big interest in ensuring that their products work.

Second: all 'O' rings require maintainence PERIOD! Even if its only checking to ensure that they haven't got any contaminants on them (such as dust, hairs, fluff, lanyards(!!! - not kidding I've seen trapped lanyards cause several floods), etc.).

Third: in my experience the vast majority of floods are user error - the trick to avoid this is to thoroughly familarise yourself with the user maintained and operated sealing systems and practise using them dry. Also develop a 'system' for setting up a housing and adhere to it. I've come across numerous floods caused by hurried setting up because of a sudden opportunity - its NOT worth it, you risk losing both opportunity and camera. Care in preparation is IMHO a prerequisite of underwater photography. I have had a total flood many years ago - due to impact damage when I rolled in and something caught!

Fourth: large ports can be slacker at the surface simply due to the physics of having a large, heavy port which exerts leverage on the seals. They should still seal but as pressure increases they should lock up and any play will disappear. The surface and just below are a risk zone though as such ports can be rotated here and any lack of 'O' ring lube or 'O' ring damage/debris on it could cause weeps, etc..

Lastly: periodic servicing of a housing will keep it running (far beyond the life of the digital camera in many cases), but I am constantly amazed at how few people factor/budget in such servicing.

I don't know that there is such a thing as a "Trademark Trickle" of water in Ikelite ports. Honestly this is the first I've heard of it. With so many Ikelite housings in use I'd be suprised if this existed and so few peole mention it.

My experience has been positive. I haven't had any water enter the port. I've used both the 8" dome system and the older flat and 6" dome ports. On the other hand I wouldn't take any housing into a ripping current or jump in with any camera.

The surface is admittedly the most critical time for the compression fitting on Ike ports. But I snorkel with my housing and no problems so far.

O-rings on all housings can be pinched. So be careful and keep it lubricated. I always check carefully to be sure the o-ring is seated without pinching. Also be sure that both clips snap in place. Finally I always do a "pool check" to be sure everything is sealed. Again never had any water enter even on the pool check.

The 8" dome port extension for the fisheye lenses is probably to most suspect. Unlike any others (8" modular port system or traditional 6" dome) it screws on bayonet fashion. Its possible to rotate it off at the surface especially if you are adjusting the dome shade. The shade IS seperate from the dome and that's how you should adjust it. I set up the shade in the hotel so that its secure and in the right orientation. Then do a quick check theat its toward the end of the bayonet range before hading it to the divemaster to enter the water. If its on right no water should "dribble" in. This isn't as elegant a solution as it could be.

At the same time, I wouldn't want to see a solution that pushes the pricepoint of Ikelite housings. Remember that most dome ports cost what Ikelite housings cost, and the dome port itself costs less than just the port extension costs on most housings. So its really not a fair comparison. But to say that Ikelite users "live with" minor dribbles is incorrect. If you are you need to look more closely at the setup.

Bottom line is that all underwater gear needs insurance because all housings fail. Its pretty naive to believe that any housing is foolproof.

Wait a minute: are you implying you make the rotary dome-to-extension connection before entering the water, not the dome-extension-to-housing clipped connection? I frankly would NEVER trust that. As you say, if you're only screwing it weakly hand-tight near the water, it can rotate off.

If you screw this on tightly long before getting near the water, then you use the extension-to-housing clip interface to seal up the setup. This can then be gently rotated to get the dome port into alignment. (This is also what I mean when I said a split shoe might require repositioning the shade, since it would remove this freedom in exchange for a 3rd clip point.) I'd feel much safer rotating this, since I can at least try to 'see' thru the housing if the o-ring gets goofed up while doing so. But the o-ring between the dome and its extension is completely blind.

I am with you though that I've not seen any 'trademark trickle' - I'm just a bit paranoid at the freedom of movement I feel in the extension-to-housing joint on the surface.

Wait a minute: are you implying you make the rotary dome-to-extension connection before entering the water, not the dome-extension-to-housing clipped connection? I frankly would NEVER trust that. As you say, if you're only screwing it weakly hand-tight near the water, it can rotate off.

 

If you screw this on tightly long before getting near the water, then you use the extension-to-housing clip interface to seal up the setup. This can then be gently rotated to get the dome port into alignment. (This is also what I mean when I said a split shoe might require repositioning the shade, since it would remove this freedom in exchange for a 3rd clip point.) I'd feel much safer rotating this, since I can at least try to 'see' thru the housing if the o-ring gets goofed up while doing so. But the o-ring between the dome and its extension is completely blind.

 

I am with you though that I've not seen any 'trademark trickle' - I'm just a bit paranoid at the freedom of movement I feel in the extension-to-housing joint on the surface.

Yes we agree--rotating the housing to extension. Just make sure that the bayonet isn't about to come off with a slight rotation. And let me reiterate that this is only an issue tor the 8" dome with the FE port extension because of how close the port is to the housing..

I see a lot of different housings in use by my u/w photo students as well as customers I dive with, I also carry-out repairs on housings.

My experience (35 years of u/w photography) has been that ALL housings can flood. It seems to me that we hear a lot about Ikelite Housing floods, but that is probably because there are a lot of Ikelite housings in use. My estimate of housings I see in use at popular photo sites (in Tulamben - Bali) is that 35-40% of housings are Ikelite. The other 35-40% are OE moulded housings (mostly P&S cameras), While the other 15% are alloy housings from Subal, Nexus, Aquatica, Seacam etc. With a few % of the less known manufacturers from Europe, Hong Kong & Japan.

Also the Ikelite Housings are used by beginners right through to very experienced photographers, whilst it is rare to see a Subal/Nexus/Aquatica/Seacam housing in the hands of a beginner, generally they are used by serious photographers, with more experience. It is often beginner photographers that have problems.

Of the housings I had bought to me over the last 12 months (that have leaked), most are caused through user error: Sand in main O rings, Damaged Main or Port O rings, NO main or port O ring, Something caught in O ring, Removing wet-lens and dislodged the port, incorrectly attached strobe sync cord plug, broken sync socket.

I only saw one Ikelite Housing with an unexplained leak, no sand, no o ring damage, port was secured well. But it had been left in the sun on an open boat (for 20 minutes) prior to diving.

My only diagnosis was that the heat built-up inside the housing (perhaps popping the seal between port & housing) and upon entering the water, the cooling effect pulled water in past the O ring (as at shallow depths, there is little pressure on this O ring), until the O ring was able to seal as the pressure of descending increased.

This may explain some shallow water leaks.