One year of sponsored diving and a free underwater camera

Craig, how come the President of the United States of America has to have a minimum age of 35 when he is elected? Is there any difference with someone who is 34 and ready for the job?

We have laws defining minimum age of consent, definition of a minor, drinking, driving and voting age requirements, etc. These laws are imperfect because they can't judge maturity. They are, though, the best we have and they serve a needed function. Not all age discrimination is bad.

In light of examples where age discrimination is beneficial, in what way does a narrow range of youthful age uniquely qualify an individual to receive these scholarships? I would say that the authors of the presidential age requirement didn't want to leave the maturity issue to the selection process. Did the authors of this scholarship restriction feel likewise? Do they feel that it is important that a 27 year old not qualify for consideration? That's what troubles me.

The unique thing about age discrimination is that all ages are potential victims. The most troubling age discrimination occurs when someone nearing retirement age finds he cannot get a job. Laws deal with that particular kind but that doesn't mean there isn't any other kind or that practicing other kinds is OK because it's not illegal.

Scholarships are wonderful things and I'm sure the people involved with this one have the best intentions. I hope that provides some needed context.

I've met two scholars and dove with one of them while on assignment for Scuba Diving last year. Both that I met are extremely good people. This is a cool program and I'm already prepping my 10 month old son. He sleeps with pictures of Jacques Cousteau and a Rolex next to his bed while listening to whale sounds.

Ya know, if I had to gripe about any of the criteria, it would be the 'no firm career path or graduate degree' in the 21 - 26 age range, not that the age range is 'too young'. On the contrary I'd think 21-26 with no firm plans or graduate experience is kind of rewarding those slow off the starting block.

Just to put out a counterpoint to craig's (sorry, but it's beginning to sound like one) rant. All in fun and individual opinionating...

Overall I think it's great scholarships like this are out there.

This is a cool program and I'm already prepping my 10 month old son. He sleeps with pictures of Jacques Cousteau and a Rolex next to his bed while listening to whale sounds.

LOL! thanks for the laugh Andy. But in my case, I wonder if the sounds of a fake Rolex will disqualify my future kid... On top of that, I think I'll forge his/her birth certificate so that my kid is 1/8th Native American to make it a sure thing...

I think the point of discrimination is a great topic for conversation however is completely irrelivant to this scholarship.

Now the USA has very different views on discrimination than europe .. i am not saying either are right or wrong. But I think what has to be realised is discrimination laws have esp in the USA bordered on invading individuals or business or groups ability to choose and make their own decisions.

You allow people into your own house all the time, but you don't let thieves in .. are you discriminating against someone because of what they choose to do for a living ? NO you are making a choice of who you as a private home owner want in your house.

In business most of the world is no forced to supply equal opportunities, however it has been pushed too far. Rather than choosing from a selection of the best candidates, we still see people getting hired because they are thought to be a minority of some sort and so it looks good on paper, and a better choice for emplyee was turned down.

Craig you mention that discriminating prevents you from having the best seletion of applicants to choose from ... i suggest maybe that the laws of discrimination force people to choose a candidate that isn't always the best one.

Most importantly here, this organisation wants to give it to someone in their chosen age group, that is their choice as a private organisation. Discrimation laws should not surpress our right to choose a right that brings about innovation, imagination and evolution.

Craig you mention that discriminating prevents you from having the best seletion of applicants to choose from ... i suggest maybe that the laws of discrimination force people to choose a candidate that isn't always the best one.

As an interesting aside, about 10 years ago I bought a property and one of the curious deed restrictions was that I couldn't sell the property to a black person. Anti-discrimination laws eliminate the ability to enforce that restriction and they are a good thing.

Let's go with your thieves analogy. Since it's OK for me to discriminate against thieves in my own home, would it be fine for this scholarship to discriminate against black people? Against homosexuals? It may be legal for them to do so, but I'd suspect there would be a lot more outrage against that than there is against their age rules.

Interestingly enough, there are scholarships made available specifically to minority groups with the justification being that these groups are otherwise disadvantaged. Do we believe that 21-26 year olds are a disadvantaged class that needs special consideration? Of course not.

Most importantly here, this organisation wants to give it to someone in their chosen age group, that is their choice as a private organisation. Discrimation laws should not surpress our right to choose a right that brings about innovation, imagination and evolution.

I used to do a lot of interviewing in my job and I was trained in fair hiring practices. I had occasion to interview a disabled man and we discussed specifically the need to give him fair consideration. In the end, I recommended against his hire because I had great difficulty communicating with him (and some of that specifically had to do with his disability). He did not get the job, not because of his disability, but because he wasn't likely to be effective due to his poor communication skills.

I am reminded of Condeleeza Rice who said, in defense of minority admissions quotas, the she wouldn't have gotten into graduate school had it not been for preferential treatment of minorities. She offered that comment in support of such programs, but for me it was an admission that she isn't qualified for her job. Sadly, she appears more qualified than her contemporaries and that's not good news.

On the other side of that, we had equal opportunity resumes that we could hire that didn't count against our human resources headcount. My group kept an eye on those stacks since they were free hires for us. On two occasions we identified and hired exceptional employees that would would have hired anyway if it weren't for the beancounters. I'm not sure how it's relevant to this, but I suppose the point is that discriminatory practices are always counterproductive.

I'm a (38 year old) European that moved to the US... and this thread just confirms one of the cultural differenced I had to come to grips with in the past 10 years.

My first reaction whenreading about this scholarship was "this is Incredibly FANTASTIC!"

But in the US it seems like every time you try to do something volontary kind to benefit others SOMEONE will find something to complain about, especially if they were not included in the "free pie".

Yes, there should be anti -discriminatory laws where they are relevant.

But hey, if someone chooses to give a gift like this scholarship to youth -may they have the freedom to make their own choises!

My hat's off to OWU!

Yes, there should be anti -discriminatory laws where they are relevant.

Nice to see that you got the point of it all.

Well, I find as I get older, the girls hitting on me are getting younger . I see this as age discrimination, but of a good kind. And no, I don't wear a Rolex or anything by Jacob so the girls aren't interested in that. Must be my radiator wetsuit

I remember in a previous life, an ozzie friend worked overseas in commonwealth countries on a 1 year visa which she could use once before hitting 27. I suppose the magic number of 27 is an arbitrary one whereby if you don't know what you are doing by 27, you're lost! It's sorta like the drinking age or the voting age... who comes up with that number, anyhow?

Still I don't think it's discriminatory to use these guidelines for a grant/scholarship. Although I do think giving a young person a rolex creates the type of consumerism.... oh that's another topic of conversation.

I'm a (38 year old) European that moved to the US...

But in the US it seems like every time you try to do something volontary kind to benefit others SOMEONE will find something to complain about, especially if they were not included in the "free pie".

 

 

b]Gee, your getting more "American" every day.......

 

Honestly, they probably feel that us "old folks" cannot take in any additional training at our advanced ages. Let's face it, it must be true.....look how many people still haven't learned how to use split fins (allowing a new tanget flame?)

Haven't you all learned not to get into debates with Craig? Or... maybe it's just the younger ones who have figured it out. Just wait until I announce our newest expedition, which has an age cap.

I'm glad there are organizations out there sponsoring young, bright people who might not have otherwise decided to go into ocean-related careers.

whats the age cap?! i think i am getting old.. but i act young

but i act young

Young or silly?

both..

Haven't you all learned not to get into debates with Craig? Or... maybe it's just the younger ones who have figured it out. Just wait until I announce our newest expedition, which has an age cap.

And do not mention Ken Rockwell!