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Color Correction for Cave Diving

Started by Perroneford ·

  • 31Posts
  • 31Replies

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Color Correction for Cave Diving

31 posts
  1. Great discussion guys. Seems like if one is shooting RAW, that doing things is post is viable, if slow. Drew, you don't have to tell me about correcting monochromatic underwater footage. I do it a LOT! In fact, it's what I've been doing EVERY DAY 6-12 hours per day for the past 2 weeks.

     

    Frankly, I don't mind the work in post. What I wondered more than anything is what I am losing by doing it in post. And from the sound of things, I am introducing some noise because I am working with [highly] compressed signals.

     

    Thanks for everyone's thoughts. This has been very good.

     

    BTW, if anyone would like to see my latest color correcting work from an failure to white balance have a look here:

     

    http://www.vimeo.com/844977

     

    -P

  2. Great discussion guys. Seems like if one is shooting RAW, that doing things is post is viable, if slow. Drew, you don't have to tell me about correcting monochromatic underwater footage. I do it a LOT! In fact, it's what I've been doing EVERY DAY 6-12 hours per day for the past 2 weeks.

     

    Frankly, I don't mind the work in post. What I wondered more than anything is what I am losing by doing it in post. And from the sound of things, I am introducing some noise because I am working with [highly] compressed signals.

     

    Thanks for everyone's thoughts. This has been very good.

     

    BTW, if anyone would like to see my latest color correcting work from an failure to white balance have a look here:

     

    http://www.vimeo.com/844977

     

    -P

     

    Are you complaining about the quality of my lovely footage ? :D;)

  3. Are you complaining about the quality of my lovely footage ? :(:P

     

    If so and you need some Indonesian footage I can work for ya.. :D;)

  4. Are you complaining about the quality of my lovely footage ? :D;)

     

     

    I wouldn't be if it didn't take me 12 hours per 10 minutes to clean up! LOL!

     

    What did you think of the cleanup by the way? I could do a quick split screen for the curious...

     

    -P

  5. I wouldn't be if it didn't take me 12 hours per 10 minutes to clean up! LOL!

     

    What did you think of the cleanup by the way? I could do a quick split screen for the curious...

     

    -P

     

     

    I'd like to see it

  6. How come it took you that long to fix up?

    Color correction should be very easy and quick to do now days.

    What are you editing on?

     

    Thats clear water you are in so pretty easy to fix up .

    I must say it looked cool to be under there though.

     

    Next time try it on some green dirty water and then watch it side by side with the original raw footage at full res.

  7. How come it took you that long to fix up?

     

    Because there's about 140GB of source files I am working with. And because the material was recorded with auto white tracking. Which means that every time the "reference white" in the scene changes, the camera adjusts, so there are new white balance keyframes every 5-10 seconds in these 5-12 minute videos.

     

    Color correction should be very easy and quick to do now days.

    What are you editing on?

     

    Color correction, if done properly, is never quick and easy. It can be if your light source is constant and your distance to subject is constant. In a cave, there is no ambient light, so every time you kick your fins, your light values change. If you also are diving with auto-iris and auto tracking white, then your white point changes every time you kick your fins or more the camera. I believe in one of the videos I used well over 1000 keyframe adjustments in 8 minutes of video. Adjustments in the sample you saw are being made to color, luma, and saturation.

     

    What am I editing on? I have a dual core Dell with 2 monitors, and a broadcast monitor to check final color. I also have a new Core2 Duo that I added to the mix for this project to act as a render station. I am using Sony Vegas Pro 8.

     

    I changed workflow three times during this project as I learned new things. I had never tackled anything of this magnitude before. I've done 250GB projects before, but they were long form meetings or conferences with a few cuts, and some basic color correction. I have done a 30 minute retirement video with titles, music, etc., but the light was constant. And I am halfway through a 1 hour documentary that I shot, but I did not auto track the white balance.

     

    Thats clear water you are in so pretty easy to fix up .

    I must say it looked cool to be under there though.

     

    I didn't shoot this, and I have never been in a cave in Mexico. So much of the color is guesswork. I am using my experience in the underwater environment, the vectorscope, and my weak knowledge of geology to "best guess", and then confer with the person who I am doing the work for.

     

    I'll consider it testament to what I did that you thought it was easy to fix up. In the short sample video, that I color corrected today, there are probably 50 or more keyframes.

     

     

    Next time try it on some green dirty water and then watch it side by side with the original raw footage at full res.

     

    Color correction is the same regardless of the water color. If the water is dirty, you aren't going to make it clean with color correction. It'll will just be neutral colored dirty water. And since this is not my footage, I don't get to choose. If you'd like to send me some footage to work on, I'll give it a shot. Include a check though because I only do this for friends, or for money.

  8. WOW you are right into it.... ;)

    1000 keyframes....yikes....

     

    You should be shooting on a HDCAM and editing in 10bit than using these highly compressed 25mbps HDV cameras if you are after top quality and perfect CCing results.

     

    Here is a 35 meg m2t raw clip from the FX1.

    From the pristine blue waters of Ningaloo :D

    It's a great example as to why one should not be using them if you are after top quality.

     

    http://www.hdvundersea.com/help/dirty.m2t

     

    You can have a go at CCing that if you like.

  9. I'll say it again. It's not footage that I shot. The guy who shot the footage did the best he could with the gear he has. And his gear is representative of what many modern shooters are using. I don't think anyone believes that we're going to be transferring to IMAX anytime soon!

     

    I am just a perfectionist, and I am trying to get the best results possible with the gear I work with.

     

    Frankly, I am just doing this for fun and self-education. I've learned a TON working with this footage and this gentleman. He's allowed me to become FAR more efficient in my workflows, and I am now producing better results, and getting them faster than I've ever done.

     

    I'll keep doing this as long as he (and others) keep sending me stuff for my Cave Diving archives.

     

    You guys with sunlight don't know how good you have it. You're key changes if a clould comes over. Cave divers' key light changes every time they swim over something, kick their fins, or turn the camera. Or even if their dive buddy looks at something different and sweeps their light across the camera's frame.

  10. Perrone

    Color correction in your situation is easier. Light is from a close by source and water is very clear. Have your shooter put WB in Daylight without filter. You'll find it much easier. Esthetically, the gradation of light gives the caves more atmosphere and using them as master shots with alternate medium CU and CU with proper CC is probably more effective.

  11. I beg to differ. Light is coming from multiple sources, at multiple angles, and with multiple colors. There are at least three light sources in those videos and none match. The video lights are around 5000k, the cave lights the divers have are between 5500k and 6800k.

     

    When shooting cave, you never know what your primary light source is going to be, and you are getting fluctuations of over 1000k every time a light swings across the frame. Which is OFTEN in a cave as that is how you signal to your buddy.

     

    What I have tried to do in most situations is to balance the video lights to white as they are the dominant source most of the time, and simply let the other lights do their thing and recolor the footage (to cyan) until they become the dominant source, and then I balance for them.

     

    In open water, unless it's a night dive, or you're pretty deep, the sun is always your key light, and your video lights are just fill.

     

    Perrone

    Color correction in your situation is easier. Light is from a close by source and water is very clear. Have your shooter put WB in Daylight without filter. You'll find it much easier. Esthetically, the gradation of light gives the caves more atmosphere and using them as master shots with alternate medium CU and CU with proper CC is probably more effective.

  12. Here is a 35 meg m2t raw clip from the FX1.

    From the pristine blue waters of Ningaloo :D

    It's a great example as to why one should not be using them if you are after top quality.

     

    http://www.hdvundersea.com/help/dirty.m2t

     

    You can have a go at CCing that if you like.

     

    http://www.vimeo.com/856131

     

    Sorry, my bandwidth on Vimeo is nearly up for the month, and I couldn't do this one in HD.

  13. Ok, I promised someone I'd post up framegrabs of the two videos. So here we go.

    post-16254-1207244857_thumb.jpg

    post-16254-1207244884_thumb.jpg

  14. I'll say it again. It's not footage that I shot. The guy who shot the footage did the best he could with the gear he has.

     

    Guy who shot is has learned his lesson and will be MWB this weekend :D

    Dont want PerroneFord to get an ulcer correcting footage !

  15. Guy who shot is has learned his lesson and will be MWB this weekend :D

    Dont want PerroneFord to get an ulcer correcting footage !

     

     

    LOL!!

     

    Man don't take this stuff wrong. I am enjoying the heck out of this stuff. By the way, all your files are now mastered, and I just need to know what lossless formats you can open in FCE. Once you tell me that, you're good to go.

     

    ...BTW, re-edits will be $2M.

  16. LOL!!

     

    Man don't take this stuff wrong. I am enjoying the heck out of this stuff. By the way, all your files are now mastered, and I just need to know what lossless formats you can open in FCE. Once you tell me that, you're good to go.

     

    ...BTW, re-edits will be $2M.

     

    I think (think) on the timeline only AIC will work (but I am not 100% FCE expert)

    I think anything else I import gets converted to that ...

  17. I think (think) on the timeline only AIC will work (but I am not 100% FCE expert)

    I think anything else I import gets converted to that ...

     

    I doesn't matter if it gets converted to AIC, I just want to make sure when I ship all these files to you, that you can drop them on the timeline! :D

     

    I believe the FCE manual said it could import any of the quicktime codecs. So I am going to make 3 versions for you to try. One of them will definitely work.

  18. Perrone, can you tell us more about the workflow you're using now in Vegas to correct colours?

     

    I have a lot of success with the color corrector filter. I use the complimentary color picker and fix the "lows" first by choosing a little rectangle of dark neutral colour (but not black or it doesn't work). Then I fix the highlights again by selecting a little rectangle of a bright part with the complimentary color picker (not white). Then I fix the mids. There often isn't a neutral mid-tone part of the frame so I select a much bigger rectangle with the dropper so that it samples a good range of colour. Often the result at this stage is a bit over-corrected so I often shift the little white circles back towards the centre a bit, judging it by eye. This all might not be as scientific as your method but it usually works well and is quite fast.

  19. My workflow is a bit dependent on what the video looks like when it comes in. Usually I drop shots on the timeline and take a quick scrub of the timeline to tell me if I am working with well exposed video or not.

     

    I get an idea of whether I've got crushed blacks, blown highlights, oversaturated colors, etc. If I have none of these things then I thank my lucky stars and do a happy dance!

     

    These particular videos came in with crushed blacks, blown highlights, NTSC illegal colors so I couldn't go to DVD with them as is, and the colors were also out of legal band. The titles were too. But this is the nature of shooting on automatic with many cameras.

     

    I changed workflow 3 times but I'll give my final workflow.

     

    1. Place video on Vegas timeline.

    2. Render out to 1280x720 29.97i AVI file Cineform AVI.

    3. Open new file in Virtualdub. Do de-interlace, de-noise, desaturate to about 70%. Deblock if necessary. Render to lossless AVI.

    4. Open new AVI on fast render machine, and render out to Cineform again.

    5. Open AVI from virtualdub while Cineform is rendering, and cut video by scene.

    6. Evaluate each scene for color balance, tonality, and exposure. Keyframe all changes per scene. Filters used were mostly "Brightness and Contrast, Color Balance, Sony Saturation which lets you adjust saturation in the mids, highs, and lows seperately.

    7. When all keyframes are done, do a replace media with the Cineform AVI file.

    8. Render master AVI after rendering sample and checking final color.

    9. Render 720p mpeg4 for upload

    10. Render 480p for DVD production

     

    On rare occasions I used the 3-way color corrector. It's a great tool for correcting small issues, but I find the color balance MUCH faster if more crude. With no reference chart to work to, I saw little reason is trying to finesse the colors. I made a best guess for an overall "look" and then corrected similar scenes to that look.

     

    Some of this workflow is dictated by the fact that I can only create Cineform files from Vegas, and that Virtualdub cannot read mJpeg files. So it necessitated rendering back and forth. I kept much of the re-rendering lossless so as not to cause degradation of the signal beyond the original.

     

    The video came in 1080i, which was just too much for my machine to push around. And I wasn't using Cineform originally, so I created lossless proxy files at 640x360 to cut on. That worked nicely for the most part, and I wouldn't mind working that way again.

     

    The most difficult aspect of this project was that Auto White Tracking was on, which shifts colors constantly as lighting changes. This necessitated a lot of keyframing. In the open water sample Wagsy gave me, I created one keyframe for exposure, and one for color balance. That was it. Since the lightsource was constant, no other changes were needed.

     

    I cannot even BEGIN to describe how helpful it would be to shoot a set of colorbars or other reference underwater at the beginning of scenes. It would allow you to color correct PERFECTLY every time with very little trouble. White balancing is a very gross tool. It helps, but shooting a chart, Macbeth or otherwise, from scene to scene would guarantee accurate color renditions when the file got back to post. Also particularly helpful is to turn the colors WAY down in the camera. Take out so much that the image looks nearly black and white, then come back a couple of clicks. Bringing the colors back up in post is quite simple, and you won't blow any color channels out doing things this way.

    Edited by Perroneford
Ultralight Control Systems

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