Welcome to the land of (potential) rejection! Insecurity babble.

OK, so I have been taking pics for a couple of years, only really got addicted in mid-2006. I got a bit of practice after that, but I really got into it bigtime last year, when we moved to So Cal. About 5 mo ago, I went dSLR.

I have just started dabbling with putting pictures in for things - local websites/"pictures of the week", local underwater photographic society, you get the idea. I sent a few things in for a bigger competition only last month.

Can I just say?? This is not easy! It is hard to have people look at your stuff. I am very worried that I am not learning enough to improve, that I am just sort of a hack who has no business sending stuff anywhere but into the recycle bin of my computer. And I am worried that everyone knows it but me!!

Then again, I am an academic-based sciencey girl who tends to apply herself expecitng to see some measurable results (hey, memorize 4 books, kick hiney on the test!). Maybe I need to relax and not apply my work brain to this.

I look around this site, and I see amazing pictures, very accomplished UW photogs, and I just gotta know - am I the only one who feels this way?? Any words of wisdom?

Look at images you like.

Figure out how they were done. (or ask the person who created them.)

Look at your images.

Find problems you would like to fix.

Prioritize the problems.

Fix the most important by changing/adapting your technique.

Repeat as necessary.

Keep learning.

Take Care,

ChrisS

I look around this site, and I see amazing pictures, very accomplished UW photogs, and I just gotta know - am I the only one who feels this way?? Any words of wisdom?

Cannot offer any real words of wisdom - but can assure you you're not the only one!!!!!

I'd echo ChrisS's advice, esp. WRT looking at others pics & working out how they did them.

Keep at it!

R

Even though I haven't done this yet (but I have it planned for the very near future) take one of those underwater photography classes that Cathy Church or Steven Frink teach. I've talked to people who have taken them and they all told me that they learned so much. Even if you take a land-based photo class you'll learn a lot about composition, lighting, exposure, etc.

I joined a camera club in September and learned so much from attending meetings and submitting my images into our monthly competitions. Perhaps the most important thing I learned is that a lot of judges are jerks. Honestly, some people have their own narrow way of looking at things and have their favorite kind of photograph and lord help the photographer who tries something different. And this is just not me talking. This is the consensus of many photographers in my club who are professionals and have been shooting for 30 years or more. They are a hell of a lot more accomplished than I am and they say "You never know what a judge is thinking."

I have a hard time when submitting my underwater shots in competitions because a lot of the judges have never seen underwater photography and don't know what goes into shooting it. I think they think I shoot in a fish bowl or aquarium. But I have won a two medals with my underwater shots, so all is not bleak. I'm submitting my avatar photo in May's competition so I'll let you know how that goes. I'll probably score a 5 or 6 (the lowest).

Hi Vet,

You can be the worlds greatest photographer and the world's worst salesperson - and not get a single photo published. Being a great photographer is not about winning contests, or selling photographs - it starts with making photos that make you happy and inspire others. Photorapher is art - and art doesn't always "sell."

If you're into continuous improvement of your work, the first step is practice, then read the posts here about photo courses and how to improve. Next, read the posts here about photo contests and how they are judged, as well as selling photos to magazines and media.

But most importantly, have fun!

Cheers

James

Most of the people that I know that are unhappy with their shooting dont spend enough time working a shot. Some of the really good stuff you see is the result of spending many shots, if not many dives with a vision in mind of what is ultimately desired. The same is true for top-side photography. Most of the great shots you see in magazines etc... had an awful lot of flops that were taken leading up to the good one. Lighting, composition, camera settings can all be bracketed on a subject to achieve slightly different results that under review should be carefully evaluated to select the absolute best or most pleasing to your eye. If you find yourself in a great situation, work it to death and then discard the losers- doing this Im sure you'll find that you are much happier with the winners.

I am very worried that I am not learning enough to improve.... I am worried that everyone knows it but me!!

 

Then again, I am an academic-based sciencey girl who tends to apply herself expecitng to see some measurable results (hey, memorize 4 books, kick hiney on the test!). Maybe I need to relax and not apply my work brain to this.

 

I look around this site, and I see amazing pictures, very accomplished UW photogs, and I just gotta know - am I the only one who feels this way?? Any words of wisdom?

You are definitely not the only one who feels this way. Underwater photography improvement is a process.

As you take more images, read more books on uw photography (BTW, I highly recommend Martin Edge's book), take uw photography courses and talk to more uw photographers about things you want to do and things they have done, you will gradually assimilate all of these things into your brain and you will begin to see improvement. It may be gradual improvement, rather than sudden, but it will be improvement.

Sometimes I feel very frustrated that my uw photography is not improving as fast as I would like, but then I look back to the photos I took with the Nikonos V camera years ago and to the photos I have recently taken with my digital camera and I actually see a huge improvement, IMHO. Basic concepts like shooting up, shooting close and the concept of edge lighting with strobes have gradually been implanted in my brain enough so that a few of these things are becoming things I automatically do when shooting with my camera underwater. Now, that's improvement!

Have patience and, as the others have said, practice, practive, practice and before long, you will be one of those uw photographers who post here and will be looked up to by beginning uw photographers.

Ellen

Can I just say?? This is not easy! It is hard to have people look at your stuff. I am very worried that I am not learning enough to improve, that I am just sort of a hack who has no business sending stuff anywhere but into the recycle bin of my computer. And I am worried that everyone knows it but me!!

First let me start off by saying that it is easy. I've been posting sub-quality stuff in the POTW for over a year now. When I, not if I, but when I eventually get a photo worthy of winning I'll be privately doing the monkey dance. With that said let me tell you something I read on here a couple of years ago. Enter, enter and then enter again. Why? Well simply put you might have an image that you like that doesn't do well here, or in another location, but then hits gold in another. The reasons are simple: Human Subjectivity. Some people are partial to fish portraits, some macro, some WA but if the photo strikes you as decent I say go for it. BTW..I've made the top 15 only twice in the POTW. But in another contest I won the amateur entry and a subsequent trip. Pretty nice for just entering a photo. The funny part...I was entering another different contest on the same site and decided to throw a photo in the "other competition". Glad I did.

I look around this site, and I see amazing pictures, very accomplished UW photogs, and I just gotta know - am I the only one who feels this way?? Any words of wisdom?

No. Wetpixel was the first site I ever found and it was by accident through a search. When I got here it was an eye opener to see how bad I really was/still am I can't think of any other competition, or hobby, where you can log on and communicate with the true greats of the game. Can you imagine a golf site with Tiger, Nickolas and Palmer? Furthermore, these guys have been very approachable and amiable when you have questions.

Thanks, guys At least I live in a place where I can practice a lot, right? I want to do one of the courses, though it might be a while - I have picked up a few books, and I do try to bug local photo people with questions.

Hey, Gary, I've only even entered ONE contest here...still a bit timid!! Guess maybe I'll start up.

Don't worry. No creative person that was any good at it, whether photographer or painter, poet or actor, cabinet maker or comedian, musician or chef, is ever completely satisfied with what they have done. That's why they struggle to be better than they are, and always strive to make the next thing better than the last. The moment you stop doing that you are condemned to be mediocre. Hope that helps.

Amen John.

Maybe I need to relax and not apply my work brain to this.

My guidance, for what it's worth, you nailed it, relax and let the other side of your brain have a chance. Good luck!

Steve

Hey, Gary, I've only even entered ONE contest here...still a bit timid!! Guess maybe I'll start up.

Hi Vet,

As the others have said practice, practice, practice and don't think for a minute the good photo's are taken all the time, there are a LOT of crap ones either side of the good ones. With digital it is easier, just take lots of pictures of the same thing while changing settings and repositioning yourself. When I go for a dive my aim is to get just one photo (out of the many I take) that I am happy with, but this doesn't always happen a lot of dives all my pics go in the bin out of the 100+ I take.

Jump in and enter comps there are some that cost a few $ to enter and there are a few free ones around they all have different judges who like different sorts of pics. I have entered the same picture in a few comps, and not heard a word back, but some have judges that like my sort of stuff and you manage to place and win prizes. The old saying if your not in it you can't win.

I had a friend tell me the other day that looking at my old pictures (some here http://www.marinedomaindiving.com/picpages/nusa_pendia.htm ) and then my current ones (some here http://www.garlin-photography.com/pics/latest/index.html ) she would not have thought it was the same photographer. I haven't done any courses just lots of practice and reading articles from sites like this one.

Also land based photo clubs can allow you to show off your work and get valuable feedback for free, these places are a great help too.

Regards

Gary

Rule number one:

if it looks good on your wall, or someone else likes it enough to ask if they can have a picture for their wall, then you have done good.

Rule number two:

Don't bother with advice from people who want to babble on in some kind of super-geek language, they're more interested in showing off that they know loads of 'stuff' about something you probably don't need to know about, than genuinely helping you develop your skills.

Rule number three:

When you begin it can take quite a while to get over the scathing feedback of those in rule number two. I'd just come third in the BSoUP 1995 Beginner's Portfolio competition in London and the front row people (very important front row people - VIFRP) asked each one of us who had come 1st to 3rd, to stand up infront of our photographs and do a self critique. Mine went something like this, and bear in mind I wasn't ready for this and had supped about 5 pints of something which had a name like 'Futtocks Old Dirigable.'

Me: Erm, well I kind of like this one 'cos it's on one of my friend's bathroom wall, and his kids love the fish on it.

VIFRP: Yes, but it's not moving anywhere, the fish has no-where to go.

Me: it's a photograph, it's not supposed to move.

VIFRP: But it needs some space.

Me: Yeh, whatever, anyway, this one is one all my mates like, they say it looks like a hand reaching up into the blue, and the divers and the boat make it seem like the hand is massive.

VIFRP: Yes, but it doesn't follow the rule of thirds.

Me: Rule of what?

And so it went on, after a few minutes more I stood down, deflated and determined to drink more beer.

A few months later DIVER published the hand reaching... shot on their front cover. I cancelled my membership to BSoUP and for the past 13 years have been very happy in my ignorance. My stuff still looks good on the wall, at least I think so, and isn't that all that matters?

Don't worry. No creative person that was any good at it, whether photographer or painter, poet or actor, cabinet maker or comedian, musician or chef, is ever completely satisfied with what they have done. That's why they struggle to be better than they are, and always strive to make the next thing better than the last. The moment you stop doing that you are condemned to be mediocre. Hope that helps.

SPOT ON!!!!

Shoot, shoot and then shoot again. In doing so review your images and be your worst critic. In that though try to figure out what went wrong and work on fixing it the next time out. Then, review again and critic and try it again. All that said, if you try to mimic others entirely you are just one of many. If you try to take from others images and put your own spin on it then I think you are on your way to being creative. Learn from others, don't necessarily follow them. IMHO

Cheers

Todd

I look around this site, and I see amazing pictures, very accomplished UW photogs, and I just gotta know - am I the only one who feels this way?? Any words of wisdom?

Another great way to learn about underwater photography and get feedback on your images is to join one of the Underwater Photographic Societies, of which there are several in the Southern California area, LAUPS and OCUPS are the ones that come to mind quickly. OCUPS has a subforum in here on Wetpixel (Underwater Photographic Society forum) and LAUPS can be found at http://www.laups.org.

Kathy

A few months later DIVER published the hand reaching... shot on their front cover. I cancelled my membership to BSoUP and for the past 13 years have been very happy in my ignorance. My stuff still looks good on the wall, at least I think so, and isn't that all that matters?

That's a cool story. Do you have a link to the photo? I'd love to see it.

That's a cool story. Do you have a link to the photo? I'd love to see it.

Hi Naked

Check out my blog (a few centimetres below)

It's under the posts called:

"Your foot - their door" and "The Rules"

Not sure what happened when my scanner did the scanning thing, it only recorded the image of one diver, and even that wasn't a very good reproduction. Picture another diver and a dive boat above the "hand."

best

Brendan, that is a cool shot. BTW, I don't think it breaks the "rule of thirds" because the sponge is in lower right third, and even if it wasn't, rules are meant to be broken.

At my camera club, we have a "You be the Judge" night where we submit our photos for comments by fellow members before we enter them in competition. Just about everyone hated this photo of the turtle because they thought there was too much negative space. When I entered it in a nature competition, the judge commented that at first he was going to say there was too much negative space, but then he realized the ocean is a big place, and this photo captured that. He wound up scoring it a 9, the highest, and I got a gold medal. But when it was entered in another competition, it scored the lowest. LOL. So you just never know.

Reading Brendan's post reminds me that when I once entered a BSoUP competition the assembled experts gave me nil points because I had not followed their rules as to what constitutes a good picture. Another time, when I entered Holborn Diving Club's annual competition in about 1984, all my pictures were strangely disqualified because "they were technically perfect'".

I rarely get asked to judge photographic competitions these days because I always give the prizes to the 'wrong' pictures. It seems that the fact that I earned more than 4 million USD in the period 1970 to 1990 from fees for my photography skills has little bearing on my ability to judge!

Remember the true definition of an ex spurt.