HV30/Ike/Raynox 5050-PRO vignettes!

Hi Peter,

 

The funny thing is that I spoke to Glenn @ Ike regarding "pro" quality images on the HV 20 and was told to move towards the Ike Dome Port 9304 & Raynox combo. vs. the typical W20 combo. add-on lens.

He also told me that if the main aim is to go wide all the time to shoot big objects, dive groups etc I should get the dome port as it will deliver the best wa picture. So I suppose this squares with what he told you.

I got the same advice on the external lense. From the half dozen retailers I called I also got negative verdicts on the W20,Epoque (same as W20) and Inon from most - every cam/housing combo will deliver different results and it seems people were very pessimistic on my canon set up.

Those that thought a wa lens could work on the HF10 housing mostly suggested the Inon. One retailer said I should only consider getting the Mangrove WP80 (a fathom lense) that screws right into the housing instead of the port (so not really wet) as his cutomers had bad experiences with any removable WA, the execption being the Inon + dome, which he couldn't explain. Yet another retailer credibly said that the WP80 also does not work (same issues as the other wet wa) as it is a one-size-fits-all solution and might only work for some combos (sony maybe). He suggested Inon as the least bad option.

As an alternative, I have seen posts on the Zen WAVP80 (also fathom lense - the same maybe?) that looks like the WP80 but it is also almost 2.5x as expensive (350 for WP vs ~900 for WAVP). Given that it looks like it has the same dimensions as the WP80 I suppose there is a high chance it will also deliver the same problems for cam/housing combos that are not perfectly suited.

The Ike 9304 is the dome I now have sitting on the Ike housing. A flat port came standard with the housing. It's just a normal piece of flat glass as seen on the standard Ike housing. Since you have a different unit I am sure you'll have different results.

The flat port I ordered is an extension that will fit the Raynox5050, so it also replaces the standard flat port of the Ikelite housing. We will see how it works.

Best

PB

He also told me that if the main aim is to go wide all the time to shoot big objects, dive groups etc I should get the dome port as it will deliver the best wa picture. So I suppose this squares with what he told you.

 

I got the same advice on the external lense. From the half dozen retailers I called I also got negative verdicts on the W20,Epoque (same as W20) and Inon from most - every cam/housing combo will deliver different results and it seems people were very pessimistic on my canon set up.

 

Those that thought a wa lens could work on the HF10 housing mostly suggested the Inon. One retailer said I should only consider getting the Mangrove WP80 (a fathom lense) that screws right into the housing instead of the port (so not really wet) as his cutomers had bad experiences with any removable WA, the execption being the Inon + dome, which he couldn't explain. Yet another retailer credibly said that the WP80 also does not work (same issues as the other wet wa) as it is a one-size-fits-all solution and might only work for some combos (sony maybe). He suggested Inon as the least bad option.

 

As an alternative, I have seen posts on the Zen WAVP80 (also fathom lense - the same maybe?) that looks like the WP80 but it is also almost 2.5x as expensive (350 for WP vs ~900 for WAVP). Given that it looks like it has the same dimensions as the WP80 I suppose there is a high chance it will also deliver the same problems for cam/housing combos that are not perfectly suited.

 

The flat port I ordered is an extension that will fit the Raynox5050, so it also replaces the standard flat port of the Ikelite housing. We will see how it works.

 

Best

 

PB

Wow. Lots of room for experimentation here. Please let us know how you get on with your new system.

I've attached two pics. from the Torrent expedition. It shows the vignettes surrounding newest team member Andrei Nikolaev. While the vignettes can be taken out in Final Cut - it's still a drag. Sorta like driving a nice car with one of those tiny spare tires.

Cheers,

Ken

Ikelite is now also selling the WP80. Not sure how it differs from this WP80 except for the price.

PB

Ikelite is now also selling the WP80. Not sure how it differs from this WP80 except for the price.

 

 

PB

I think one thing Ikelite could do is provide prospective buyers with some still grabs from lens combos. This would prevent buyers from having to guess, or be the guinea pigs for upgrade experimentation.

On that note - I did experiment with the adaptor ring from Adorama to see if it made a difference with regards to the vignetting issue with the Raynox 5050-supplied adaptor ring.

Results - same, if not a shade more vignetting with the Bower/ Adorama ring. http://www.adorama.com/FLD4337.html

More experimentation to follow. In the end, I believe this Canon/Ikelite combo. will be backup for me. For WA Raynox shots I will just edit out the corners in FC.

Ken

I think one thing Ikelite could do is provide prospective buyers with some still grabs from lens combos. This would prevent buyers from having to guess, or be the guinea pigs for upgrade experimentation.

Absolutely.  I emailed Ikelite before purchasing a 6090 housing for HF100 + 9304.1 flat port to accomodate a 5050 PRO, as I was advised that the flat port would allow better macro focus and a longer zoom, the dome port sounds like you are stuck at WA all the time.  I am expecting more severe vingetting at full wide, I guess that is the compromise.  The info on their website was a bit vague, and it took some back and forth emails before I got some more technical details (I'll post what they said when I get to work).  But as an online shopper, it's really hard to spend any money without knowing what you are getting... I'll post lots of examples once I have all the kit.

The #9304 dome port will give about 3/4 of the zoom range with little to no macro,(close up), and will be about 10% better in wide angle over the flat port. The #9304.1 flat port will focus through all the zoom range but does cut down the overall image about 10%. If you want to be able to have wide angle settings and close up settings, use the flat port. If you shoot wide angle most of the time without using any close up shots, the dome will work better. If you do any split shots in-between the water and surface, use the flat port.

This is what Ikelite replied with after I requested more technical info to help me choose a port for the 5050 Pro.

Well, I spent some more dough. What else is new?

I got a "Century Optics .65x High Resolution Wide Angle Video Converter Lens, 37mm Mounting Thread" lens and tried it in the pool yesterday. It did not seem to vignette behind the Ike flat port and gave OK closeups. Note: this is not the long (and still-) awaited new HD lens, but the one that's been out several years.

Next week off to SoFL to try it in some salt water - I'll add a comment here about results if there are any to report.

Still fighting with viewfinders - the Ike port is too small and too low down and asking Ike I was told it isn't / won't be available larger, or even more importantly to me, tilted up. They'd have to make a new back plate to tilt the viewfinder upward and I did say that would be a good idea, 'cause then they could give it a little relief and fit the next larger sized battery too... As PADI would say "don't hold your breath."

The flip-out screen with its left-right reversal doesn't get it done for me - I'm just toooooo linear. For that one reason, wish I'd bought a Sony HC-9!

Tom

I've attached two pics. from the Torrent expedition. It shows the vignettes surrounding newest team member Andrei Nikolaev.

 

Cheers,

 

Ken

Hey Ken...

I'm in the thinking process of starting a class action suit against Ikelite for bad engineering, bad testing and even worse customer support and luring us into buying more solutions that don't work with the Canon hv20/hv30 cameras...

Can you imagine, they received countless emails and phone calls from me, you and so many other people with the hv20/hv30 wide angle problems, and they still continue to falsely advertise the W20 lense, the Raynox 5050 combos and the whopping 900$ WP80 knowing full well they don't work.

Heck why the hell not since instead of buying one solution that will work, they sell 3 that don't, so we keep spending money.

We believe that since we already purchased the camera and the housing, which is still a sweet sum of money for my pocketbook anyways, that we'd loose too much to try to sell it to somebody else and getting a sony/ikelite combo which don't have our awefull vignetting problems, that we'll gladely fork over more money...

No wonder bad capitalism is killing our economy nowadays...

I've tried every setup except for the raynox 5050/Ikelite dome port combination since at the time, nobody had found a solution to the 5050...

Did you actually try Wydeangle's solution for the raynox 5050 lens, removing the 37 37 ring ???

Does the 5050 lens vignette on land or is it the port that causes vignetting ???

stef

OK - has anyone actually tried the Ike WP80 for the HV30 Ike housing? I'm willing to get one if anyone can assure me it works as advertised. Does it sound like I'm getting a little cynical here

The .65 Century works OK; just won't focus using the flat port beyond about 1/2 zoom, but otherwise OK. Vignettes at the bottom, so Ike's sending some tape to tilt the camera up very slightly on the tray to see if that fixes it.

BTW the new Century .65 lens is out: new Century .65 HD 37mm lens

Alas, they don't have the dimensions available yet so don't know if it will fit the flat port. Argh!

Tom

OK - has anyone actually tried the Ike WP80 for the HV30 Ike housing? I'm willing to get one if anyone can assure me it works as advertised. Does it sound like I'm getting a little cynical here

 

 

 

Tom

Hey Tom

I share your suffering, I've tried everything to make this baby do wide angle and my last 2 solutions come down to either scrapping it and buying a sony/ikelite combo or trying the dome port and 3rd party wide angle...

You said a while back that you had solved the 5050 issue with your flat port... I also see you're not using it anymore... Is it because the barrel distorion bugs you, or that the port is causing vignettes. If barrel distortion is the only problem, I can manage on fixing it in edition.

How's the zooming ???

thanks

stef

thailandstef,

You said a while back that you had solved the 5050 issue with your flat port...

Sorry, I don't remember saying that but I have slept since then

I gave up the 5050 because of the edge softness and the vignetting, although it didn't vignette IF I remembered to zoom in slightly just before each wide shot.

The zooming with the 5050 seemed better than with the Century - that is, I could zoom farther with the 5050 before it refused to focus any more.

BTW, I got a lot of "footage" on my last trip. I couldn't get used to the left-right reversal on the LCD so resorted to using the eyepiece only. Alas, my older eyeballs couldn't see the record/pause symbol too well. Aaaarrrggghhhh!

Canon says of the HV30

One disables the other, so if you were to have the LCD panel on, the viewfinder would be deactivated and vice versa. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you.

Ike says the HV20 doesn't have this restriction, so I may have to swap the HV30 for the HV20. My idea is to use the LCD to see whether the pause/record symbol is displayed, and the eyepiece for any motion shots. I've asked Canon to verify this. Of course if this works the battery won't last very long - I'm already changing batteries after two dives at the most.

Finally, I may just have to look for a newer Sony and housing and go back to fighting Sony problems which seem more manageable at the moment.

Any other ideas?

Tom

I gave up the 5050 because of the edge softness and the vignetting, although it didn't vignette IF I remembered to zoom in slightly just before each wide shot.

Do you get edge softness on all the recording modes dv, wide dv and all the hd modes ???

With the century, you get no vignetting and no softness at all ???

thanks

stef

Do you get edge softness on all the recording modes dv, wide dv and all the hd modes ???

 

With the century, you get no vignetting and no softness at all ???

 

thanks

 

stef

Stef,

The edges are less soft, and the vignetting less with the Century. Not perfect but IMHO better. Most vignetting (at full wide) was at the bottom, so will try shimming the camera very slightly on the tray. Maybe 0.020" or so. Won't be able to try this for a few days.

Then there's the new Century lens - supposed to be real HD capable mentioned above. Still no dimensions so don't know if it will fit the flat port....

Tom

Stef,

 

The edges are less soft, and the vignetting less with the Century. Not perfect but IMHO better. Most vignetting (at full wide) was at the bottom, so will try shimming the camera very slightly on the tray. Maybe 0.020" or so. Won't be able to try this for a few days.

 

Then there's the new Century lens - supposed to be real HD capable mentioned above. Still no dimensions so don't know if it will fit the flat port....

 

Tom

Hey Tom

I'm stuck on a desert island for another month so I can't really try stuff just yet, but what about this baby

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/2299...Wide_Angle.html

it's a .55 from century optics...Doesn't look like the highest quality but can't expect much for 150$, but since it's so close to the camera lens and here are the physical specs

.55X Wide Angle Adapter

37 by 43 in diameter and 9.4mm wide

37mm Thread Version

4.6oz (131g)

Accepts 43mm Filters

this should work no ???

too bad you need a step up ring or else I'm sure it woulda fit in the original housing/port...

Next time i'm in NYC, I'll bring my housing and try the WP80, but I had comments it's the same problem since the camera is too far from the porthole

stef

stef,

According to Century, that lens is a "partial zoom". Other than that, it might work. I like the full zoom-through capability of the other lenses.

I'm waiting to see what the physical dimensions are for the lens I posted about above.

Just got back from Indonesia - love to be "stuck" there for another month LOL

Tom

Hey Guys

So this is the reply I got from Jean at Ikelite when in exasperation, I wrote them an email urging them to fix our problem or I was going to legaly make them responsible for this HV20/30 mess they got us in...

I apologize for my delay in reply. We have been very busy since returning from our annual industry trade show.

We were unable to locate any correspondence from or with you regarding an issue with the Ikelite Housing #6071, optional port and Raynox lens combination. So if you failed to receive response in the past, I apologize. Sometimes legitimate e-mails both to and from Ikelite get lost in spam filters. If incorrect information has been provided in past e-mails, we will certainly do whatever we can to correct any problems or confusion caused.

Our repeated testing (above and below water) shows absolutely no vignetting present in any recommended wide angle setup for the HV20/HV30 housing. We have recognized that there is information on the required adapter rings to attach the Raynox 5050 lens to the camera is missing from our housing instruction manual. When the appropriate adapters are used no vignetting is present. We are working to correct the instruction manual and website information, and I can get back with you with the exact details later this week.

As I'm sure you know, optics are quite different underwater than they are above water. Dome ports provide better edge definition at certain points of a camera's zoom range, but can be quite soft in the edges at other points. External wide angle lenses (such as the W-20) can be soft at the edges due to the distance of the camera's lens from the rear element of the wet lens. You'll find this with any manufacturer's external lens, and this information is provided on our website.

Every camera is slightly different, and each consumer's photographic needs and expectations are slightly different. We attempt to find the best balance possible between universality, quality, and affordability.

We're certainly interested in working with you and making sure you are getting the best results possible. I guess I am befuddled as to the need for threats, as I am unaware of any refusal to try to correct your problems.

So there it is guys, I guess we're all dumbasses 'cause Ikelite says so...

Happy hunting...

Can anybody let us know as soon as the specs for the new Century .65 HD lens come out, or if anybody tried hands on the WP80 ikelite port

I work as a professional underwater photographer in a dive resort in the Maldives, once in a while I shoot videos of the guest with mantas and such, so my priority is the widest angle, I really really don't care about any zooming, if I want to do macro, i'll put the original port back on for a macro dive, I usually don't mix different styles of video on one dive...

thanks

Dumb stef

Great news for y'all deep pockets

I just bought the WP80 wide angle port from Ikelite and it works !!!!

I tested it in all shooting modes and it's absolutely perfect no softness and no vignetting...

But... it's gonna cost ya 900$

footage from cozumel coming shortly

stef

Great news for y'all deep pockets

 

I just bought the WP80 wide angle port from Ikelite and it works !!!!

 

I tested it in all shooting modes and it's absolutely perfect no softness and no vignetting...

 

But... it's gonna cost ya 900$

 

footage from cozumel coming shortly

 

 

stef

I wish tey had of told me when I bought my WP20 a few months back. Thanks for every ones information.

Hi Stef,

sounds good.

A Ikelite Reseller here in Germany told me exactly what you said.

Do you have some footage to share with us?

That would be great.

Markus

OK Guys

here it is

http://www.flickr.com/photos/38475203@N03/3596288562/

you'll see very slight vignetting on the barracudu shot but it sure beats the other wide angle solutions

stef