The Ugly photographer

A while back in some thread I posted an opinion that I thought that underwater photographers are more educated about marine ecology and hence more aware of not hurting creatures/ not doing damage to the reefs. Well I am sitting at the deck at a well known dive resort now after a few days of diving with the ugly photographer and I am appalled and disguised! I have changed my mind. Apparently there are photographers who really do think they are justified to do anything and everything because they are carrying a shiny housing. HOW do you deal with the loudmouth selfproclaimed "professional photographer" who pushes and showes everyone, photographers and divers alike, out of the way and then hogs the subject for the entire dive so noone else can even have a look? HOw do you deal with someone who dismisses any pleads from staff and fellow divers with "your here just for vacation - i'm WORKING"? How do you deal with someone who will have his partner pick up a flamingoe tounge and drop it so he can get "dancing shots" for 40 minutes straight until the poor critter has no strength to even flutter and just drops limp to the bottom. How do you deal with somoeone who the entire day feels free to tell everyone on the boat that their equipment sucks and that every other photographer that you mention sucks in one way or the other? I am so fed up with the "ugly photographer" right now that I am considering not diving tomorrow just to get a break from the flurry of craped coral, the kicked sponges and the traumatized critters.... Argh. Too bad, I have been looking forward to this trip a long time..

How do you deal with someone.....

Name them?!

Tell them that your trip, being "just a vacation" cost the same if not more than his so you have equal right to enjoy it also. You then also mention that it is not the camera that takes the picture but the photographer. And then lastly I would tell the clown that he is a clown (you can use different words in this case) and to grow up. Or something kind of like that ; )

I almost find it hard to believe someone would be that rude.

Cheers

Todd

Hi Marjo. Sorry to hear your having such a bad time. How about printing up your thread for him and asking him to respond for wetpixel? I'll bet the "know it all" goes speechless. If he does respond then we'll all get a crack at him.

The one thing you can't do is let the SOB ruin your trip. Your a brilliant, tough and well spoken lady, if you can't dissuade him he's a lost cause.

Steve

Pull the Sea Hunt maneuver and cut his hose?

I would shove him right back if he shoved me out of the way. Then if he did it again, I'd scratch up his dome port. LOL. Well, not really but I'd certainly tell him off. I'm not shy.

On my recent trip to Grand Cayman there was a gentleman who was ... well ... let's just say he had bouyancy issues.

He was about 70 years old and had supposedly been diving and taking photographs underwater for 25+ years.

I got buddied up with him as the "other photographer". After two days of watching him lay down on the reef to get the shot, everyone involved was fed up.

I spent a good amount of time following him around underwater poking him on the thigh every time he crashed into the reef. I was frustrated at the amount of time I wasted keeping an eye on him, but when either the guides or I were watching, he was better behaved.

Eventually, the boat crew gave him two verbal warnings and told him if he didn't behave better that they would refuse to take him on the boat.

It was frustrating. After every dive I said something like: "Carl, man, you REALLY gotta be more careful down there. You are bashing the reef and it just isn't cool. If you can't get the shot without resorting that kind of nonsense, I won't dive with you anymore."

Unfortunately, it pretty much fell on deaf ears.

All I could do was set a better example.

First, anybody that shoves you out of the way deserves a kick to the camera. If not the first time, then surely the second time it happens.

First, tell the divemaster that the photographer should not be be permitted to do what he is doing.

First, tell the photographer that he would be better off having a private guide or otherwise diving away from the group.

First, take pictures of the photographer doing the bad things, and print them for the world to see.

First, find out for whom the photographer is shooting and send them a note expressing your displeasure that the publication uses such an obnoxious photographer to represent the publication.

First, call the photographer an asshole, in front of everybody. Tell him nobody likes being around an asshole, and you are sorry to have to use the word asshole so many times and hope that he stops taking asshole pills so you don't have to call him on it anymore.

Don't abort your diving. Have fun instead. Honestly and truly, if it were me, I'd shadow the diver, and take pictures of him, with the diffuser off of my flash, and just blind him with flashes. Tell him its the only way you know how to deal with a rude obnoxious asshole.

Yes, we really need to know who this guy is. I'm not one for indiscriminate flaming, but add some photo evidence to the thread and let us know who it is. A lot of folks like myself schedule many trips and time with professional underwater photographers. So far all the guys I have spent time with are great guys that I would consider friends as well as teachers. I definitely do not want to waste time or spend money in the future patronizing a-holes.

By the way, the only professional photographer I met made it quite clear that he is the LAST one to take pictures of anything because the guests outnumber him. I would think the divemaster would discourage such rude behavior as described above, if only because he is going to be tipped better for doing so.

Hey Marjo, I had another idea. If you feel like it you can turn this into an opportunity. Follow him around like a shadow and take pictures of all the bad behavior. Take shots of the broken coral, etc. Then you can write an article for publication on how not to dive and take photographs. When he asks why you're following him you can tell him your on assignment to write an article on bad diving behavior and he's the perfect case study. Heck you could interview the guy for real and try to understand his motivation. I'd like to see the look on his face when you ask him to sign the release form.

Steve

Hey Marjo, I had another idea. If you feel like it you can turn this into an opportunity. Follow him around like a shadow and take pictures of all the bad behavior. Take shots of the broken coral, etc. Then you can write an article for publication on how not to dive and take photographs. When he asks why you're following him you can tell him your on assignment to write an article on bad diving behavior and he's the perfect case study. Heck you could interview the guy for real and try to understand his motivation. I'd like to see the look on his face when you ask him to sign the release form.

 

Steve

Not bad at all!

But the older I get in life the more I come to appreciate the adage 'Leopards don't change their spots'. Given the behaviour of this guy, is it likely any of the suggestions posted would cause a real change in his mind-set (although the air-supply one could, I guess )?

There are 'tossers' in every walk of life - and I've just had a flight back from the Red Sea with a lot of them - but thankfully most are not!

It's not a 'get-out' or a weak solution when I suggest to just try to stay away from him, it's meant for your own sanity.

R

the loudmouth selfproclaimed "professional photographer"

If he is as awful as you say, which I am sure he is, I would absolutely put a name to the shame. Sometimes it does wonders to a persons' long term demeanor when they realize their poor behavior is being broadcast on the www. And God forbid the stories get back to his publisher/UW magazine!

Also, absolutely talk to the resort about the issue if others are as bothered as you. They should either take him for "a walk to the bow" or send him packing rather than ruin an entire groups trip.

Oh, and sneak into the camera room one night and grind sand into all his o-rings just for good measure.

Will you tell us who it is if we guess? Does his first name start with an "R"?

As a pro shooter myself, I never forget that other guests have paid big bucks to be there. In most cases I've paid nothing or am being paid. Even if I were working, I could never keep my mouth shut in a situation like that and I'd be all over that guys ass, regardless of who he is. If the resort hired him, I'd be complaining to the resort manager that he's ruining everyone's vacation.

I certainly would be taking lots of pictures and let him know I'd be posting it all on Wetpixel.

If I didn't show up belly-up on a beach somewhere at least I could be proud that I exposed him.

I hope that doesn't make me ugly too.

i have experienced this behaviour a couple of times myself. the first time was in the similans, when a couple of eastern european photographers ( well one photographer and a caddy ) were out to get the shot at any expense. Noe it was february and the water was around 30'c and the pair of them were wearing 7mm semi dry suits, whilst the rest of the boat were in 3mm shorties. it did become apparant as to why they we wearing them when we witnessed them crashing all over the corals to get " the shot "

At one particular site there was and maybe still is an enourmoua sea fan, which we were informed that was the largest in thailand, whether this was true i do not know but it was at least 15ft across. my cousin was a DM in thailand at the time and had a small PS camera and my wife and I were hovering about 10 ft in front of the sea fan so that my cousin could take our photo with the fan behind. all of a sudden out of knowhere the 2 divers in question rocked up and were now behind us and in the photo. I signalled to them to move out of the shot. they didnt move, again i tried to explain that my cousin was trying to take our photo. this fell on deaf ears and they were not going to be moving out of the way. i swam over to them and with a gentle tap on the shoulder i again pointed to my cousin who was still waiting to take the photo. again this fell on deaf ears. i was really getting pi$$ed at this and so was my cousin who had now joined me. the couple were not going to be moving out of the way for us and were bust trying to set up there strobes for their shot. i was determind that she was not going to get her shot and my cousin and i moved to behind the sea fan and just stayed there so we would be in her photo. this seemed to get her back up and within a minute or 2 there was a bit of a scene going on. punches thrown, pushing and shoving. well we waited around just to pee her off even more and make sure she wasnt going to get a good shot. after the dive my cousin and i complained to the guide and he said that he would sort it out, and that if she done anything like it again, we were to cut her hoses. ( i think he was joking )

me being me, could not let this issue rest and when all the divers were back on board and all within the same area, i went over to the couple and asked if they understood english, yes was the reply. i then went on to tell them that their actions were not appropriate and that we are all paying customers and should respect each other. i dont think i said it quite as politely as that, but i wanted to make sure that i got the message across. i was amazed at how many new friends i had after that. it appears that the couple only dived in our group that day because the group they were diving with had had enough of them. every other diver on the livaboard come to me to shake my hand and sia that they wish that they had said something to them earlier. after this they were escorted on the remaining dives by one of the guides so they could not destroy any more of the reef.

on another trip to manado a few years ago, a all hell broke loose on one dive when another female photographer ( i am not sexist honestly ) was hogging a subject. myself i only take maximum of 3 shots if i am diving with others, and then move on. this woman wasnt having any concideration for any of the other divers in the group. again she was a diver that washappy to lay on coral, kick coral just to get the shot. well one guy, asked her to move along after she had taken 15-20 shots with both her cameras, and he pointed to the remaining group in a way to say there are more guys and girls here that want to see the frogfish. well to cut a long story short a brawl took place between herself and the guy who was tring to get her to move on, this was at 25 metres, 2nd stages were ripped out of mouths, masks off, cameras tugged. unfortunately i didnt see all of this as we gave up waiting and had moved on. the woman ( who might be a member on here ) Isabel effner from bonaire

had the cheek to complain to the DM after the dive and she was insisting that the guy involved was not allowed to dive anymore. evryone who was on the boat witnessed her actions and were all supportive of the guy. this was our 2nd to last day at this resort before moving on for a week at kbr. unluckily for us, a day after being at kbr the woman and her partner arrived at kbr as well. we immediately asked the manager if we could dive well away from them because of what had happened. we asked him to telephone the sister resort to find out what her diving skills were like. well we were put on the same boat as her and had great pleasure of finning up loads of sand every time she was about to take a shot.

as for the jerk in the OP post if you know his name, name and shame him.

You have my sympathies, behaviour like that above and below the water should not be acceptable.

The best advice I can give is to "take a deep breath", try and relax and most importantly don't let the behaviour of a Troll ruin your enjoyment of a holiday.

Most importantly do not be tempted to do anything that could be considered retaliatory underwater, although suggesting it here is satisfying.

I think the first reply gave some very good advice, if the person really is a "professional" then the best way is to name them and give an honest account of their actions - preferably documenting it with photos and naming someone (like your buddy) who can back your story up.

Sounds a bit "legal" but that sort of information means they cannot simply refute your story.

Once the story and pictures circulate, it may even cause them to modify their behaviour once they start loosing money from assignments because of it.

Thanks everyone I think actually that the taking pics to document the "bad behavior" as an example of what not-to-do is a brilliant idea! Well, I did go diving today, had some fantastic dives and really enjoyed all of it. It worked out well also because the ugly photographer declared the first dive (we only saw a gazillion flavors of nudies, a great hammerhead, ghost pipefish...) a crappy dive and asked to be taken in a dingy somewhere else. A wish that was happily granted

and his name is ..................

I think the first reply gave some very good advice, if the person really is a "professional" then the best way is to name them and give an honest account of their actions.

I'd just like to clarify that my initial reply was partly tongue in cheek. At the same time as posting this I sent Marjo a private message to saying not really. To try and rise above it. Naming "ugly" would provide a solution to the problem, it might lower the whole thing into a slanging match (a bit like we saw with the Rod's rod saga - those in the wrong rarely admit it), and if "ugly" happened to see himself named and shamed while at the resort with Marjo, ramifications could potentially ruin her vacation. If he is a cock already, imagine how he might act...

A lot of folks like myself schedule many trips and time with professional underwater photographers... I definitely do not want to waste time or spend money in the future patronizing a-holes.

That said, I do think Jeff raises a valid point as a high percentage of pro-shooters do run workshops/trips.

Alex

Is this really about underwater photographers or about an individual who has a personality which is highly narcissistic and who happens to be a photographer?

I just returned from diving in the Indo-Pacific and every H2O photographer I dove with was highly conscious of the environment and other divers around them...

I have dived with 5 professional photographers over the years and all but one was very careful when shooting.

All but one didn't hog the subject,

All but one did not wear gloves!

Then again the culprit was at least 20 to 30 years older than the other 4 and clearly the enviromental impact of his actions meant nothing to him.......actually I don't think he gave a damn as getting the shot clearly meant more to him that what anyone thought of his actions.

After 2 days I had a little word with him and fortunately he was not on my boat for the rest of the week. Everyone was very happy.

When temperature permits gloves should be banned as it clearly incourages the holding of coral.