Gates Housing for Sony PMW-EX1

However, now I'm realizing that the histogram, which I could have used instead of the zebra for exposure isn't output to the external monitor either!

I guess I'll use the expanded focus button to adjust focus...oh wait, that isn't output either! I'm sorry but this is really upsetting. I have a 7K camera in a 10k housing and I can't guarantee focus or exposure? Remember, this isnt a true HD monitor so best guess isnt an option...well maybe it is now. Now I don't know if I should even get this wet this weekend. Arghhhh. I'm feeling abused.

If you read this John, please give us 1-3 inches more on the monitor cable on the inside of the housing. It would be nice to plug it in before inserting the tray rather than trying to squeeze in there once the tray is started. I had to remove the plastic cover door (as per your recommendation in the manual) but more cable and I could have kept it on.

Hi all,

Indeed we used to have this cable longer on older housings until someone pinched it in the main housing seal. So now we make it long enough to plug in but preclude it being caught in the seal.

If you want a longer cable we can do so just for you Mark. Contact us by email and we'll arrange the details.

J-

However, now I'm realizing that the histogram, which I could have used instead of the zebra for exposure isn't output to the external monitor either!

 

I guess I'll use the expanded focus button to adjust focus...oh wait, that isn't output either! I'm sorry but this is really upsetting. I have a 7K camera in a 10k housing and I can't guarantee focus or exposure? Remember, this isnt a true HD monitor so best guess isnt an option...well maybe it is now. Now I don't know if I should even get this wet this weekend. Arghhhh. I'm feeling abused.

Mark,

You're correct: even if we had access to expanded focus it would not display on your monitor. Zebra, Peaking, Expanded Focus are but three functions that the camera mfrs elect not output to the monitor. I have asked my contacts to please do so for us underwater folks, but alas not yet.

The good news is you may find the monitor has enough detail to critical focus. Many customers do, so try it this weekend.

FWIW -- I let the camera focus for me (it does a much better job) and then flip into manual focus. This freezes the focus on my subject and voila! Sharp, clear video. Sometimes I tweak it slightly if the camera decides to focus on something other than my subject, but that's pretty rare.

And regarding your comment about exposure -- you have access to Manual/Auto Iris and Iris adjust, and this will appear on your monitor. Please clarify.

Let us know how everything goes.

Cheers,

J-

Might be a good time to try the manual focus assist feature. Where you focus manually, and the camera "helps" sharpen the image. I haven't used this on land (much less in the water) but seems tailor made for an application such as this.

Mark,

 

You're correct: even if we had access to expanded focus it would not display on your monitor. Zebra, Peaking, Expanded Focus are but three functions that the camera mfrs elect not output to the monitor. I have asked my contacts to please do so for us underwater folks, but alas not yet.

 

The good news is you may find the monitor has enough detail to critical focus. Many customers do, so try it this weekend.

 

FWIW -- I let the camera focus for me (it does a much better job) and then flip into manual focus. This freezes the focus on my subject and voila! Sharp, clear video. Sometimes I tweak it slightly if the camera decides to focus on something other than my subject, but that's pretty rare.

 

And regarding your comment about exposure -- you have access to Manual/Auto Iris and Iris adjust, and this will appear on your monitor. Please clarify.

 

Let us know how everything goes.

 

Cheers,

 

J-

Hi JohnE and All,

John has made a great housing and I agree with the cord getting jammed issue. I had modified an old housing (not a gates) to have the cord drop from above instead of the side. It made the cord always drop into the housing. Maybe that is a good option. I'm just as concerned with pulling the camera out and forgetting that cord and busting the camera. You have to pull it out just far enough to reach it before it is strained.

We do have access to expanded focus by assigning it to Assign 1 or 3. But, as said, no go on the display. Same with the histogram.

The backfocus drifting issue that is plaguing some of us ex1 owners also affected me. I hope the v5 of the firmware fixes this for me. That made zooming in, focusing, and pulling out an unavailable option as well.

Regarding exposure: There are two ways I know to guarantee you have correct exposure. Something needed for broadcast. 1. You know you have the highlights in check by using the zebra at whatever you feel comfortable at. I like mine at 90 because I watch it closely. 2. Use the histogram for proper levels in the highs and lows. Neither of these are output to the monitor.

We have great control of the iris but no electronic feedback to know we have crushed the shadows or spanked that sunlit coral shot. Throw in the dampening effects of looking at a monitor underwater and...well it isn't what I had hoped for and I know some others waiting for my report are going to be equally disappointed by Sony's over site.

I have zebra on my pd150 video out. What a shame Sony dropped this. I also wrote them during the night. If someone has the ears of Sony R&D, give me an email address. I wish I knew the numbers of cameras that display the output of everything (mirrors the internal display like my pd150) and I wish I knew the total numbers of housings out there each year sold so I could give Sony some real world data.

Again, a lot of these issues are Sony related but not all of them. Maybe I would not have bought the housing had it been mentioned clearly in the housing literature and in phone conversations that the zebra, peaking, expanded focus, and histogram will not be shown on the external monitor due to Sony limitations. It is frustrating because John/Gates made a great housing, Joe/Marine Visions were great at customer service and and yet, right now, i'm bummed.

I wonder if my head will explode if the Ex3 has the display mirrored and lanc control. I need some Tylenol. In the mean while, I will try the focusing suggestions. My underwater rack focus ideas are out the window though.

Mark

I am thrilled with my new Gates EX1 Housing!!!

This has to be one of the best made pieces of equipment I have ever purchaesd. The balance of this rig underwater is absolutely ridiculous. My 9 year old son could handle it in the shallows of the Florida Keys. We got amazing footage of lobsters and snappers even with the bottom all stirred up!!

I found the system can white balance anf mannually focus pretty easily underwater. I am a new shooter so the Zebra issue has not hit home yet but with the external monitor and SeaRay 2000 I was able to stay in focus on 90% of my shots.

Underwater using 1080 30P creates a filmic look most people are desiring. This rig delivers on that big time!

Mark,

One of the desplay options on the EX1 is the Brightness level indicator. This little number appears just right and down of center when enabled. It is a value that reads like "74%" and indicates what percent of broadcast limit you are. I have not checked but believe this should correlate with the zebra values. The number can exceed 100% so you know you are over the limit then. If this number is displayed on monitor out, you will know exactly where your exposure is for the center-weighted part of the shot. I set up most of my shots before shooting so a quick pan and scan will give you the value in your shot range and let you dial that iris.

Let me know if this value is displayed.

On the focus issue, if you are shooting manual primarily (which I believe you are), is the lens/DOF indicator at the bottom of the screen output to the monitor? Using this indicator you should be able to dial you focus and DOF to where you need it pretty quickly. If you are shooting flat port, this will be harder. For the dome, you will get more DOF. If you get the UWA, you will get incredible DOF. The wider the lens, the more you should be able to set your focus and just shoot.

Thoughts?

Shawn

-shawn

Mark,

One of the desplay options on the EX1 is the Brightness level indicator. If this number is displayed on monitor out, you will know exactly where your exposure is for the center-weighted part of the shot. I set up most of my shots before shooting so a quick pan and scan will give you the value in your shot range and let you dial that iris.

 

On the focus issue, if you are shooting manual primarily (which I believe you are), is the lens/DOF indicator at the bottom of the screen output to the monitor? Using this indicator you should be able to dial you focus and DOF to where you need it pretty quickly.

 

Shawn

-shawn

Hey Shawn, thanks for the post. Now that you mention it; the DOF is not output to the external monitor either But a good suggestion if it were. Also, not really applicable with the close up and diaptors as you mentioned. With the camera being 1/2 inch the dof is nice and narrow at 2.8. I was shooting the writing on a drinking glass 3 feet away and the further letters were visibly out of focus. Brilliant on land...a challenge underwater.

Now about the light metering. Yes that value is output to the external. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but it is an average display for the frame. I have yet to find a good use for that and I think it goes back to metering for film. Anyway, since it is an average, I have not been able to get it to read a number that corresponds to zebra showing up on the internal monitor. I was playing with that thinking it might be a solution but it just seems like an average so it doesn't tell me to iris down per say when there is a blown out highlight. I will play with it some more.

Emails have been sent to Sony professional and they have responded and have asked for more information on the issue and even some specs on the housing and such and why it was important for us underwater folks. I don't know what will come of it. I've forwarded the emails to Gates so they can pursue it from their side. Maybe I'm the only one who sees this as an issue. I believe there are good reasons to have this info put out the external feed. I just hope Sony will agree and be able to fix it in firmware.

The inability to monitor the lighting of a scene, whether indoors, outdoors, or underwater, should be readily apparent to anyone familiar with capturing images.

That said, I'd imagine you could probably protect your highlights quite well by doing some basic testing. Basically akin to the old "Sunny 16" rule of film photography.

With the 10 stops of latitude of this camera, I can hardly imagine you blowing the highlights even with the iris at 2.8 if you're shooting 24p 1/48th. Use the knee settings to really bend down the highlights as they approach 80 IRE and you should be able to get some magnificent results.

I know that's a crappy substitute for actual metering, but it should allow you to come back with some footage that can be manipulated easily in post, and expanded if you wanted.

It will be curious to hear what Sony has to say.

I think setting the knee limit is a great idea. Not sure what value but this can be quickly tested. You can also use the rear viewfinder to assess you scene for zebra during set up. Adj values and shoot away. Not ideal for dynamic action but most folks aren't cranking the iris wheel during fast uw action with a housing nob...more likely to screw things up.

I think setting the knee limit is a great idea. Not sure what value but this can be quickly tested. You can also use the rear viewfinder to assess you scene for zebra during set up. Adj values and shoot away. Not ideal for dynamic action but most folks aren't cranking the iris wheel during fast uw action with a housing nob...more likely to screw things up.

Yes, the knee is an option and a good suggestion. Thank you. I'll set up several camera profiles to test with starting tomorrow. Knees starting at 50 slow 80 med 90 fast. Ill keep you posted.

Good stuff. You might also consider that based on light transmission principles, you're going to lose "X" number of stops per 30ft. So if you set your zebra on the surface, you'll know to open the iris a certain amount as you descend (assuming you're using sun as your key). If you take your lighting with you, you can meter on land for your lights, then add the requisite amount of light added by the sun at whatever depths.

It's a bit of a hassle, but think of it like shooting film. There were no zebras on Jaws... It all had to be done this way.

Good stuff. You might also consider that based on light transmission principles, you're going to lose "X" number of stops per 30ft. So if you set your zebra on the surface, you'll know to open the iris a certain amount as you descend (assuming you're using sun as your key). If you take your lighting with you, you can meter on land for your lights, then add the requisite amount of light added by the sun at whatever depths.

 

It's a bit of a hassle, but think of it like shooting film. There were no zebras on Jaws... It all had to be done this way.

Yeah, I don't think I can effectively guess light loss since vis can change and thus light transmission. But it is fun to think about the guys who did that in the film days.

I'm going to do all this testing without lights over the next few days in Belize. I want it to be just me and the camera to see how she performs. Turn on the lights on any girl and she doesn't act the same. Sometimes better...sometimes worse.

urn on the lights on any girl and she doesn't act the same. Sometimes better...sometimes worse.

Sounds like a quote from TMZ!

Shawn, did you spring for the EX1? I know you were considering various options a few weeks ago, and the acceptability of various cameras for National Geographic, Discovery, and BBC channel programs. How do you like it?

Pat

There were no zebras on Jaws...

Of course not, it was about a Shark, no Zebras, sheesh everyone knows that (could not resist, sorry)

It is amazing how much things have changed ....

Ok. EX1 is in the house! Image quality is well, WOW! I have only had a few days on it but I can say with great confidence it is a big step up. Low light is phenomenal, 30p is a joy, image is sharp, and controls relatively simple to figure out. I would say I find AF a bit slow (same with one-touch in MF) and the camera is awkward. I slightly modified my FX1/Z1 Shoulder Brace to fit my EX1 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/355586-REG/Sony_VCTFXA_VCT_FXA_Shoulder_Brace.html) and that has made it far easier to shoot with by hand. Overall I am really excited about it's potential. Give me and XDR drive at 100mbs 4:2:2 and I nailed my list of needs.

I am excited about Discovery/Animal planet accepting the format. I have some buddies shooting for them who are raving about it in the field. I am bummed Nat Geo and BBC aren't keen on it as a primary format. That being said, I know there are a lot of FX1/Z1s in the field providing footage for these folks. I expect they should be pretty tolerant of the EX1 footage...but you never know. For what I am doing, it really makes sense to have most bases covered with this portable cam in the house.

More to come and hopefully good news

Congrats Shaun.... what housing are you getting out of interest?

Jon

Well the credit crunch has meant that even if I may have been in the market for an EX1, I'm certainly not now.

I'm not jealous, I'm not jealous, I'm not jealous, I'm not jealous...... I'm just going to keep repeating that until I start to believe it!!

Good luck all you EX1ers!

Cheers, Simon

I was looking at the details on the gates EX1 rig - and it states that under the wide dome, some brands of w/a adaptors might fit - or something to that effect. Does anyone have any experience they could pass on in this area?

Thanks,

Simon