DECISIONS....4040?, CP5000? OR G2?

I'm in the market for a digital camera for above water use but want to use underwater 1-2X/year. I own u/w video equipment but have never ventured into the world of u/w still photography. I've narrowed my choices to the Oly 4040, Nikon CP5000 (I have a Nikon SLR flash) or the Cannon G2. What would everyone reccommend and what are the tradoffs? $'s will be a factor for the housing investment. Is housing rental possible?

I recommend you look at dpreview, to help you choose between these 3 cameras. Read the reviews and the forums. Also, there is a good thread here, about camera choice, that has lots of good comparitive camera info.

The cp5000 has the edge for built in macro.

The g2 seems to have the edge for overall image quality. And raw mode is a big plus, underwater, due to the extra flexibility of deciding how to convert, after the fact. The G2 has a great LCD - very viewable in full daylight even.

The 4040 has the benefit of having the cheapest housing - if you can live with the depth limit of the oly housing. Image quality is the least, of the 3, (still very good, of course!), and it uses smart media, which limits the memory size quite a lot, these days.

None of them has very great auto focus, and generally you will want a focus assist light, in all but the brightest, shallowest conditions.

I went through all this, about 6 months ago, and chose the G2 in ikelite housing, and have been very happy.

I'll still be moving back to a DSLR, when there is a good camera/housing combo I like and can afford.

You will be able to use your Nikon flash in the Coolpix 5000's hotshoe. That is a major plus right there.

When reading through DPreview keep in mind that most of the things that users (and Phil somewhat) don't like about the 5000 (Wideangle lens, feature rich, etc) are actually really nice to have underwater.

HTH

James

Not wanting to start yet another flame war, but it is very debatable that the G2 has better image quality than the CP5000. Read this months Popular Photography which gave the edge to the 5000 after conducting their own photo tests (or maybe its Photographic Mag). You can read a lot of reviews and get conflicting results. If you look at them closely they don't claim one to be significantly better than the other. I did my own test before buying, printing on my printer files from both cameras and liked the 5000 better. Note I went to the store my money in hand to buy a 4040. I felt the 5000 far easier to use and the image quality better. That's when I started comparing the G2 and the 5000. The controls on the 5000 are similar to Nikon's F100 which I have shot for years and may be part of the reason why I found the 5000 preferable.

Advantages of the 5000 for UW photography are as mentioned above, very close focusing Macro that needs no auxiliary lens and a wider lens. 28 mm vs. 35 mm of the other cameras. Also a Nikon dedicated hotshoe. Virtually all UW strobes are Nikon compatible. Also about 6 or 7 manufactures of UW housings have announced that they are going to make housings so you have a lot of features to choose from in a housing for your camera.

IMO (A loyal canon man til the death) Most of us can't really tell the difference between high end digital p/s cameras assuming both were taken well and processed correctly.

A few can, but the important thing is you get one you like and are comfortable with when operating. I struggled a lot with the same decision you are trying to make, and ultimately stuck with the Canon g2. Primarily because I could use all the batt's and cards I use with my D30, and I found it easier to operate.

I guess I was already up on the on the learning curve, since I am already familiar with the Canon methods.

In the long run I think I probably would have been very happy with either, and the ability to hard wire your strobes with the Coolpix is a really big plus, IMO.

Not much help huh

Coming from the world of scanning (I have a coolscan 4000) I look up a digital camera as a portable scanner. This means any image I process either for the web or for print goes through photoshop. If this is your intent you may want a camera that gives you a lot of info, not the one the the gives you the best camera processed picture. I don't know which would be best but I would say an easily accessed histogram would be essential. If your goal is to go directly to web or print using only the camera's built in processing than you want a camera that processes great out of the box.

The 5000's histogram is very easy to use, the others I don't know about. That feature of the G2's where you can apply the white balance after tlhe shot sounds very nice. Especially if that means you can send an image to Photoshop without a white balance.

I'm curious what everyone thinks is important when choosing a housing and camera?

I think it's true that all the camera mentioned will give me the image quality I need so I looked for:

1. Price!

2. Battery life - we often do 2 boat dives in tropical water for a total of 1.5 - 2 hours between battery changes (assuming I don't want to open the cases on the boat). I'd like to see the mfcrs of the cases support external battery packs, often you can supply external power to suppliment the internal batterys so an external pack of AAs can double the life.

3. Minimum shutter delay - this has been a real problem for us with the lower spec cameras.

I chose the 3040 and PT-010 - very happy so far.

Cozumel in less than 2 weeks!

--Nick--

Well, I was going to get the 4040 and the PT housing for cost reasons. But I just didn't like the controls and feel of the camera and the Ikelite housing was clearly better. Thats when I started researching other cameras.

This is a great idea. We can get together a list, of the aspects that matter, and we can give rough values to those factors, for various cameras and/or housings.

Then, all someone has to do, is plug in their own personal weightings, for the relative importance of each factor, and out pops their best choice.

We could probably even turn it into a spread sheet.

Anyway, for me, some of the factors are:

1) image quality

1.1) image quality at various iso settings

2) lcd clarity under differing lighting conditions.

3) battery life

4) autofocus speed and reliability, in underwater lighting conditions.

5) shutter delay, after AF is done

6) exposure accuracy

7) zoom range

8) aperture range

9) shutter speed range

10) synch speed range

11) metering modes - A, S, M

12) independent ambient and flash exposure compensation, easily used

13) useability issues - swivels, dark display in dark conditions, etc

14) memory type, ( cf best, sm next, sony last..??)

15) battery type, (standard aa's best, good rechargeble pack, next...)

16) useable manual focus?

17) common underwater strobe compatibilities. (non-preflash cameras would be prefered, especially if you already have uw strobes...)

18) histogram on review

19) in camera image adjustments - saturation, contrast, sharpness, etc.

20) software issues such as canon and nikon raw modes...

21) price

22) housings available, qualities, and prices

23) strobe systems available, qualities, and prices

What can we add to this list?

Once the list is there, we can each rate our own cameras, given what we know of them in real life use, and what we may know of others, in comparison.

I just bought a CP5000 and I am quite disapointed with both Nikon and Ikelite. I have had an Ikelite housing and strobe kit on order for over a month and it has not shipped. They said 2 weeks. Nikon is worse. If you get a CP5000 don't expect to get any accessories anytime soon. UR-e5 lens adaptor, UR-e6 lens adaptor, MB-e5000 AA battery pack and the standard battery EN-EL1 are all backordered. Some dealers are not anticipating any shipments from Nikon until July. I am leaving for Belize in 3 weeks and I am not a happy camper. Hard to do much without a housing and only 1 battery. Hint: if you are looking for a battery, you can buy the battery and charger kit for only $5 over the list price of the battery if you search.

I hate being negative, but I don't get many opportunities to dive. It could be a year before my investment gets used if Ikelite does not pull through. The camera is very impressive.

Ikelite *will* pull through, very soon.

I'd be happy to take anyone's money, in a bet on that!

I've been dealing with them for about 10 years, and I can only say that they go totally above and beyond any other organization I've ever dealth with, time after time after time.

Don't get discouraged. You're on the cutting edge here!!

Will the MB-e5000 AA battery pack fit into the Ikelite housing?

FYI the Wide Angle Lens i can be found 3 or 4 times a week on ebay..

I got my UR-E5 from tristatecamera.com and it seems like they often have it in stock. When Ike needed one I told him to call them...and sure enough...they had it.

The MB-E5000 has not been delivered to US dealers yet.

If I'm correct, Ikelite is going to make a "taller" CP5k housing to accomodate the MB-E5000. I think this is a great idea! Look at dpreview.com for some pictures of the battery-pack. It kicks butt!

Cheers

James

PS: Don - I'd be happy to help with the spreadsheet.

I noticed that several of the "Mac" mail order catalogues list the UR-5 adaptor and the 68 wide angle lens. Don't know if that meant that they actually have it. I understand from several sources that Ikelite should be shipping by the end of the month. That will be several months before any other housings are avalible (except for the Oly housings and other Ikelite offerings for other cameras)

That list of features would be good. Should allow space for users of specfic cameras and housings to add coments derived from actual use of same.

Krash : We should have all orders for the Coolpix 5000 housing shipped by the end of this week. E-mail me (ike@ikelite.com) if you want me to confirm shipment. Did you notice that I got the "thumbs down" icon inverted by simply shipping a housing? Is this bribery?

ike

If you dig you can find the adaptors. The lenses are abundant - go figure. Try small stores. James, tristatecamera.com still claims to have them. The Mb-e5000 will not fit within the current Ikelite housing much to my dismay. I hate proprietary batteries but the EN-EL1 is affordable. If new housings will accept the Mb-e5000 and Ikelite does not ship, I will cancel and hold out for the new one.

A third party supplier will be coming out with a 1000 mah bat for the CP5000. The UR-5 adapter is useful for protecting the camera's lens and for adding filters. I think this is why there are more lenses than adapters available. On the dp nikon forum their is a thread about at least one third party adapter available to use with the lens. I have found with repeated use the length of charge goes up dramatically. I no longer consider length of battery charge with the camera to be a problem.

RE the LiON battery: me neither. I was really disappointed the first charge only lasted for about 75 shots. Now after a few months, I get easily 3x as many and I have never run the battery down on a dive.

Cheers

James Wiseman

The G2 is really good with battery life.

I've done 2 70-80 minute dives, many many times, and only ran out once, when I had shot the camera a lot during surface interval, at the humpbacks that were cruising by.

The sony 505 and 707 are the only cameras that are better, but due to the memory stick size limit, you'd have to change sticks, between dives, I think.

So anyway, does anyone have any more factors to add to the "what matters in digicams", list? Or any factors that should be removed?