Picture Styles (Canon EOS)

Has anyone bothered to try and create a custom underwater Picture Style with Canon EOS cameras. I have found that Canon themselves have developed I few more styles beyond the default options found here http://web.canon.jp/imaging/picturestyle/file/download.html but nothing specific to the underwater environment (I know this changes drastically and is probably why).

If anyone would like to share their experiments with picture styles I would be very interested. Any additional comments on colour space recommendations would also be helpful.

Thanks

Pete

Hi Pete,

I've found that shooting stills I'm much happier shooting RAW and applying the the processing in post. Picture styles assume your getting a jpg from the camera. You can do the same thing by creating a preset to apply in your raw processing program. The processing you apply will depend to some degree on the camera your shooting. I finally learned to create a preset when I kept moving the sliders to the same place over and over for the same conditions.

I shoot in the Adobe RGB color space. I believe the general consensus is to use the sRGB in camera only if your images are only intended for the web. If you plan to do prints someday the wider Adobe RGB provides more information with deeper colors and can handle post processing better.

Steve

Hi Pete,

I've found that shooting stills I'm much happier shooting RAW and applying the the processing in post. Picture styles assume your getting a jpg from the camera. You can do the same thing by creating a preset to apply in your raw processing program. The processing you apply will depend to some degree on the camera your shooting. I finally learned to create a preset when I kept moving the sliders to the same place over and over for the same conditions.

 

I shoot in the Adobe RGB color space. I believe the general consensus is to use the sRGB in camera only if your images are only intended for the web. If you plan to do prints someday the wider Adobe RGB provides more information with deeper colors and can handle post processing better.

 

Steve

Thanks just the info I was after will forget about picture styles and use presets in Capture One as I only shoot in RAW.

I tend to use Faithful so Im seeing it before Im going to be doing any fiddling, ie contrast not added in much, sharpening low, saturation fairly normal etc etc. That way you know what you've got to start with. White balance is the one I sometimes get tempted to fiddle with a bit rather than going with AWB, but in practise I just wait till editting.

Otara

I shoot in the Adobe RGB color space. I believe the general consensus is to use the sRGB in camera only if your images are only intended for the web. If you plan to do prints someday the wider Adobe RGB provides more information with deeper colors and can handle post processing better.

 

Steve

Hi Steve

I was a bit surprised to see that you shoot in Adobe RGB. I have always understood that sRGB is generally preferred for the vast majority of applications. Sure for printing I process the RAW files to Adobe RGB in Photoshop but otherwise the files stay in sRGB colour space. Here is one of the articles I saved way back: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/adobe-rgb.htm. Or as stated elsewhere " if you shoot in Adobe RGB and then convert files to sRGB you get the disadvantages of both and the advantages of neither!"

But perhaps I am behind the times? Just wondering what other people do nowdays?

Andre

But perhaps I am behind the times? Just wondering what other people do nowdays?

 

Andre

I'm along way from an expert Andre. I'll read the article and see if I'm missing something. I'm not sure that if you're shooting RAW it makes any difference which you pick. I'm thinking only the JPEG would be affected. Hopefully one of the pros will set us straight.

Steve

Hi Andre, Read the article you referenced and some that is just Ken Rockwell being Ken. It goes back to 2006 too. I think a better read is here http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorial...photo-rgb.shtml and describes the Prophoto RGB colorspace I use in Lightroom when processing raw files.

Steve

Usefull info, thanks

Never really cared about this too much..

While it's true that the Picture Styles do not affect the RAW file (I shoot RAW exclusively) the Picture Style does affect the histogram as it appears on our LCD screens. The histogram is generated based on your camera's JPG processing settings. Check out this link from Luminous Landscape.. Histogram Link as it explains it much better than I could...and would rather not have to retype it all here.

Oh, IMHO following photographic advice from Ken Rockwell is akin to taking medical advice from someone who watches House on TV

Stu

RAW has no real defined color space ... some might argue that each camera has its own color space ... but that's a silly semantic argument ...

Here is some good info:

http://www.ppmag.com/reviews/200509_rodneycm.pdf

http://www.ppmag.com/reviews/200510_rodneycm.pdf

Oh, IMHO following photographic advice from Ken Rockwell is akin to taking medical advice from someone who watches House on TV

Lol. I just about fell on the floor reading that.

I wish there was a permanent, global google option to always ignore Ken's site in searches.

Yeah, I like how he can review a camera by just looking at specs and by his gut instinct know already what kind of image it'll produce. My apologies to the creators of House....maybe Ken's closer to Grey's Anatomy.

Stu

I tend to use Faithful so Im seeing it before Im going to be doing any fiddling, ie contrast not added in much, sharpening low, saturation fairly normal etc etc. That way you know what you've got to start with. White balance is the one I sometimes get tempted to fiddle with a bit rather than going with AWB, but in practise I just wait till editting.

 

Otara

same with me here Otara. I agree with you.

_____________________

Minneapolis photographer

Yeah, I like how he can review a camera by just looking at specs and by his gut instinct know already what kind of image it'll produce. My apologies to the creators of House....maybe Ken's closer to Grey's Anatomy.

 

 

Stu

Jees, wish I didn't mention that Could have mentioned several hundred others!

But Stu I still want to know what setting you use for you camera - sRGB or Aobe RGB? I am still sticking with sRGB for now but stand to be corrected. Here is my thinking:

We all shoot RAW and process the image in a RAW converter to the colour space we need to work in such as Adobe RGB or ProPhoto RGB for our prints. I doesnt matter if your camera was set for sRGB or Adobe RGB because the RAW file doesnt have a colour space. So if that is all we ever do then it is a moot point. However if you shoot a RAW file plus a JPG which I find is a common practice, you would be better of to have your camera set to sRGB. In that way your JPG, which is probably intended for web use, or so that you can see your image in a storage device that cant read your RAW file, or for any other computer image viewer that doesn't read RAW files, will be in the right colour space and will display propperly. If you have started with your camera in Adobe RGB your JPG is not going to look right unless you convert it and tag it as a sRGB image.

It thus seems to make sense to me that you get the best of both worlds if your camera setting is sRGB. Particularly if far more of your images are going to end being viewed on a computer screen rather than being printed.

OK, now hammer me please

Hi Andre

No hammer needed.

I've always set mine to Adobe RGB. I also question why one would bother shooting RAW + JPG. Why?

1) You end up with less space on your CF Card, lower buffer too

2) No matter what, the RAW file will have more "headroom" for exposure or file adjustment, so why shoot JPG

3) As much as I'd like to get it "right in camera" one of our biggest issues is WB underwater...so...why JPG if WB adjustments are better in RAW than JPG.

4) Since I adjust the camera's contrast setting to a much lower value, then the in camera generated JPG is rendered pretty flat too...back to the Raw file to fix it.

5) Now, my output device is the HP Z3100 and it does have a gamut that is slightly larger than sRGB given the right media, while I cannot properly see the results on screen, the print does stand out.

6) Oh, my storage device does show CR2 files, it's the Hyperdrive Colourspace. My 5dmk2, 7D and G10 raws are viewable.

7) Since I never show the RAW file to my clients, I always just process the images in Bridge then CS4 (soon 5) I don't use Lightroom so can't comment on that. Photoshop/Bridge will display the correct colour space.

Also ACR does support the picturestyle presets so if you were really pressed for time, just click on them when processing the CR2 file.

Nuff said me thinks.

Stu

Hi Andre

 

No hammer needed.

 

I've always set mine to Adobe RGB. I also question why one would bother shooting RAW + JPG. Why?

 

1) You end up with less space on your CF Card, lower buffer too

2) No matter what, the RAW file will have more "headroom" for exposure or file adjustment, so why shoot JPG

3) As much as I'd like to get it "right in camera" one of our biggest issues is WB underwater...so...why JPG if WB adjustments are better in RAW than JPG.

4) Since I adjust the camera's contrast setting to a much lower value, then the in camera generated JPG is rendered pretty flat too...back to the Raw file to fix it.

5) Now, my output device is the HP Z3100 and it does have a gamut that is slightly larger than sRGB given the right media, while I cannot properly see the results on screen, the print does stand out.

6) Oh, my storage device does show CR2 files, it's the Hyperdrive Colourspace. My 5dmk2, 7D and G10 raws are viewable.

7) Since I never show the RAW file to my clients, I always just process the images in Bridge then CS4 (soon 5) I don't use Lightroom so can't comment on that. Photoshop/Bridge will display the correct colour space.

 

Also ACR does support the picturestyle presets so if you were really pressed for time, just click on them when processing the CR2 file.

 

Nuff said me thinks.

 

Stu

Thanks Stu. Yes I can see that you have little or no use for JPGs with your setup. But you might as well have your camera's colour space set to the defaul sRGB right? It would make absolutely no difference as you are only using RAW files which have no colour space. Just for the hell of it I tested that out today and took two identical RAW images - one in sRGB and the other in Adobe RGB. The resulting RAW files were of course identical.

I do find the RAW plus medium JPG option handy for a few reasons and find the the extra storage space is rather inconsequential with the huge cards we have. I use an older Epson storage device that doesn't read the newer RAW formats so that just makes it easier for me to use.

Anyway, really not that important. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't doing anything wrong by using sRGB camera settings.

Thanks for the input.

I just tried to do ProPhoto and some prints and they looked just awful. Yes I made sure about the application supporting it, changing the printer, turning off printer auto correction settings and gamut checking etc. Might hav missed something but pretty sure I didnt.

My printer (HP 8450) seems to be optimising for sRGB and assumes that as a default for whats going to be delivered , I had to change quite a few settings to even get it to change colour space all along the chain. To get it to look right on the printer Id have to make it look awfully odd onscreen, making judgement quite difficult as well. Maybe with one of the 98% screens it would be a bit easier, but I have your average screen, which seems to work OK for sRGB for predicting output, but sure doesnt seem to for Pro.

Id say unless you know a lot about colour spaces and have a very high quality printer and screen or are getting professional prints, I think for most people its probably safer sticking with sRGB as your final colourspace, as so many things are assuming it as a default now, and its so easy to miss something in the chain. But doesnt hurt to experiment I guess, just make sure you write down everything you started with before you start changing things.

Otara

Which program are you printing from partner?

CS4

@Andre

I guess it doesn't matter in my workflow so it'll just stay in Adobe RGB, you never know if someone requests a quick download and just wants a JPG.

@ Otara

I'm curious at your settings, working from a colour managed workflow, using a calibrated monitor and proper paper profile, I took a ProPhoto RGB image and printed on my HP Photosmart B8850 printer. Settings to the driver were "Application Managed Colors" and on the PS side, I use "Photoshop Manages Color", select the proper paper profile, Rendering was "Relative Colormetric" and "Black Point Compression" is checked. Comparison to the same image done in sRGB was indistinguishable with this printer, I didn't have photo paper loaded on my big printer so didn't test it but there would have been more subtle detail with a larger gamut machine.

Regards

Stu