Sony's new 8 megapixel camera

Laz,

That thread already exists somewhere. I'm pretty sure there's one over at digitaldiver anyway. You're right, the autofocus and shutter lag improvements are good. It appears there may be some bad as well.

Here's the other thread:

http://www.digitaldiver.info/yabbse/index....y;threadid=3873

Mike

The biggest concerns I've read about were in regards to the new housing not having the ability to install external lenses and having a limited wide angle range with the built in lens. I think this is an assumption by most as its impossible to notice from the photos if it can be done or not. Worse case scenario.. It doesn't look too tough to swap the threaded lens ring from the flat port on the PT-015 with the PT-020. This is just an assumption though. We'll just have to wait and see.

The lens is a problem in itself, not the lack of the ability to attach it.

The new, wider Olympus lens actually "sees" the in side of the conversion lens, causing an awful vignette. By the time the lens is zoomed out to compensate for the vignette, the actuall configuration of the optical elements changes (the moving front element I've discussed earlier). On the 5050, when your zoom was at the 35mm position, the lens is at its most extended position. On the 5060, the lens is actually retracted from its fully extended position, putting the front element of the 5060's lens some distance away from the rear element of the WA conversion lens, causing further vignetting, requiring you to zoom even further in on the 5060 to eliminate the vignette, which reduces the gain of the lens. How much of a reduction? It is significant, but I haven't done any measurements in water yet.

IMHO, the only usable wide angle option will be a housed Oly WA. The specs show the WA takes the lens to a 21mm equivalent, which isn't "that" wide, but comes closer to the 100 degree cutoff point for serious wide angle. The idea that Olympus puts a flat port on the dome lens housing is laughable.

IMHO, the only usable wide angle option will be a housed Oly WA. The specs show the WA takes the lens to a 21mm equivalent, which isn't "that" wide, but comes closer to the 100 degree cutoff point for serious wide angle. The idea that Olympus puts a flat port on the dome lens housing is laughable.

Thanks for the update Ryan. So this thing will end up having an inferior wideangle coverage vs the Inon lens + dome, and will also loss the flexiblilty of switching between WA and macro during a dive that Jeff mentioned. It looks like Olympus just seriously derailed their underwater business.

Ryan, can this camera be used in an Ikelite housing with INON add on lenses?

Similar to a 5050?

I don't understand if the negatives with the 5060 are associated with the PT housing setup or the camera itself.

Karl

Karl,

If I understand Ryan's response, the answer is NO. The lens moves back when in the wide zoom position, causing it to vignette w/ the add-on lens.

And Jeff - I appreciate your point of view about camera/housing size, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that that is not Marc's reason for the switch. He makes his own housings and they are anything but small - check some of his posts for photos.

Cheers

James

That leaves only two valid arguments.

LCD composition (the biggie for me)

Zoom lens flexibility

Hmm...

Well, I've got a couple of nice zoom lenses for my S2:

70-180mm macro zoom

12-24DX wideangle zoom

18-35 Mid-range zoom

If I wanted to, I could also mount a mid range zoom like the 24-85 AFS and then use an add-on wideangle lens like Fathom or Amphibico make. Yes, I'm not joking - I could do it and the lenses are there... No one would do it though, because while versatile, add-on lenses are a poor compromise that quality.

Cheers

James

Man, this thing is going in a lot of directions.

So this thing will end up having an inferior wideangle coverage vs the Inon lens + dome, and will also loss the flexiblilty of switching between WA and macro during a dive that Jeff mentioned.

Even worse, the PT-020 w/ wide port will have inferior coverage to the Inon UWL-100 ALONE, not to mention the addition of the dome port.

I don't understand if the negatives with the 5060 are associated with the PT housing setup or the camera itself.

While the "ANNOUNCED" version of the PT-020 has its holes (namely the Wide Ports Flat front port) the C-5060 will be a bugger to get wide with, due to its new camera lens.

As James said, at full wide (27mm equivalent) the camera vignettes because the UWL-100 was designed for a 32-35mm wide end.

At 35mm, the lens will still vignette, since the front elelement moves back into the camera to achieve this focal length, causing a distance between the front element of the 5060 and the rear element of the UWL-100. This is just like holding your UWL-100 up infront of your 5050, and moving it 1" away from the camera's lens. You'll see exactly what happens with the 5060, ie the vignette increses.

These combinations force you to zoom in even further than 35mm equivalent, and this is where you reduce the effectiveness of the lens.

If I wanted to, I could also mount a mid range zoom like the 24-85 AFS and then use an add-on wideangle lens like Fathom or Amphibico make. Yes, I'm not joking - I could do it and the lenses are there... No one would do it though, because while versatile, add-on lenses are a poor compromise that quality.

This is a bad comparison. A P&S is more versatile in the types of images it can aquire, from SM to 130 degree WA. The add on optics are also better, since they can be the proper size and people won't complain too awfullly bad. The size of the optics to do what wet lenses for P&S do for SLR cameras is astronomical, both in bulk and expense. To keep the price down, they sacrifice size and quality.

Your SLR is flexible in a totally different way. You have access to the extremes in both Macro and Wide Angle, and a better imager.

Size is relative. Granted, the stereotype holds true for most SLRs, the housings are generally larger, but you can get really small housings for something like the Digital Rebel that are about as small as some of the housing for P&S. Case in point, from the pix of the Ike housing for the D Reb, it's about the same size as the housing they make for the now ancient Sony DSC-S85 that I used to have.

LCD composition is really the most subjective criteria of all. Many people LOVE LCD composition because they feel like they can see exactly what the pic will look like. I personally didn't like it, because I found myself comparing it to using my Canon film SLR. I also always felt like the ability to control what was and was not in focus was lacking, and that there was an unacceptable lag between reality and the LCD, even in half-press mode. Worked fine for still subjects, but more skittish ones were challenging. But at the end of the day, it was just my preference.

The only real tradeoff in my mind is the zoom lens flexibility. I don't think there's any way to really argue that you can get the same range of focal lengths from a dSLR with one lens that is easily housable that you can get from a typical P&S. Yeah, you could make the argument that you might be able to cover the same range, but as James pointed out, nobody does.

Yeah, you could make the argument that you might be able to cover the same range, but as James pointed out, nobody does.

Or even wants to.

SLR's are better at the extremes. With the introduction of the Inon dome, some P&S cameras can now go really wide. Not all will use that adapter and it's still wetmount. All digital SLR's can go that wide. Wetmount lenses are versatile and convenient but they aren't as good optically.

P&S cameras are still limited in their supermacro capability, too. You can ultimately achieve better magnification with an SLR, better working distances and better manual focus.

I also prefer the VF to an LCD. LCD aren't good for critical focus and always seem to be behind the action.

There are midrange zooms for SLR's that provide similar capabilities to a lot of P&S's, but (a) they're seldom used underwater, and (B) don't provide the macro ability of the preferred PS&S's like the 5050.

For those of you who are interested ?

State Street Direct online is offering pre orders of the Sony 828 for $ 998., and a estimated arrival date of 12/26/2003.

http://rd.bcentral.com/?ID=1289332&s=40747377

Marc

12/24/2003 would be better.

Sony's 828 manual now on line.

http://www.docs.sony.com/release/DSCF828.pdf

Marc