Seacam or Subal

I'm getting ready to sell my Canon F1n/Aquatica set up and take the plunge to a DSLR system. Either a Canon 10D/Subal or 1Ds/Seacam or maybe holdoff long enought to see the Canon's replacement for the 1D.

I have not looked at housings since purchasing my Aquatica A3 some 10 + years ago (my how time flys) and have not been able to find many users impressions of either the Subal or Seacam housings. I am looking for general information on overall quality, fit and finish, maintenance. My first impressions are that, besides sticker shock, the Seacam must be a real work of art. However, from what I have seen of the Subal that this is a reputable manufacturer.

Any feedback on either of these housings would be much appreciated.

Keith

My Webpage

I have never owned either myself but have the priveledge of seeing both and playing with both.

In my opinion the Subal takes the prize home as it is simply easier to use.

The SeaCam is fidlier than the Subal and a pain to set up initiaally.

The SeaCam does have excellent build quality and some nice features but Subal has all of that as well as some great features of it's own.

G

I haven't used either, but one thing about your post strikes me. There's a huge difference in both cost and capability between the 10d and the 1Ds. Normally, I'd say look at the housings then decide, but in this case, I'd say try both cameras and see which you want to use. There's probably an $8-10K difference between the two, so it's worth renting the two cameras for a couple days to test them out. You may find that you're perfectly happy wiith the 10d, in which case you're probably better going with it and the Subal. But coming from film directly to a dSLR, you might also find that you really want the full frame sensor on the 1Ds.

Just a thought...

Thanks Tom and Giles,

I am in no hurry at this point and will have an oportunity to really get to know the 10D as I just ordered one for my wife as a x-mas gift. (I know, pretty sneaky, order it for her but it is really for me to play with until I make up my mind). Cost is a factor in deciding between the two systems, however, investing $5000 for a 10D system and then to regret not have a full frame sensor seems to be a waste. I firmly believe in spending the money to get what you want rather than settling for something that you will regret later on.

Anyway, I am really excited to explore the DSLR possibilites after having my head burried in the world of housed SLR's for the last 12 years. Now if only I could get a decent price for my A3 housing....

Keith

My first impressions are that, besides sticker shock, the Seacam must be a real work of art. However, from what I have seen of the Subal that this is a reputable manufacturer.

 

Any feedback on either of these housings would be much appreciated.

Both are quality products. Seacam is WAY expensive (not that Subal is cheap either), but if you have the dollars it is an amazing housing. Their viewfinders are amazing (but at least 3 times what I would be willing to pay).

The other thing to be careful of with Seacam is delivery time - they are notoriously slow in delivery and manufacturing and there are times where they get several months behind in delivery. Be sure to get firm commitments when you order directly from SeaCam (not the dealer).

If it was a choice of just housing (not camera), I'd probably go Subal. But then I would go Nexus and serioulsy consider Aquatica before I went Subal as well :-)

M

Just 2 quick thoughts in terms of your comparison shopping:

1. The new generation Seacam housings do not require much fiddling. I'm in Roatan right now shooting with a Seacam EOS1Ds and you really just drop the camera in, snug it down with the tripod screw, and you are good to go. There have been great advancements in the D100, S2, and EOS1Ds housing as compared to the control features of the D1X housing. The new housings are an evolutionary improvement for sure.

2. As for delivery times, yes you should allow 4 to 6 weeks. But the advise to get information directly from Seacam and not the dealer is not totally accurate. We are the North American/Caribbean distributor and for sure we ask Seacam when we can promise delivery before we promise anything to a customer. We don't make these things up just to close a sale.

Steve

I'm also a firm believer in buying what will work and make sense so you don't buy it again. For a great article on this concept RE: tripods, check out Thom Hogan's site. My point was more that there's a big difference in how the cameras are used, nevermind just the price.

Good that you've got the chance to play with the 10d, that'll at least let you evaluate one of the two bodies.

Thanks for the update Steve on the Seacam Housings.

Just curious but which viewfinder have you been using and is the Pro VF "good enough" or is the S45/S180 must have for 1Ds camera? Also, do you plan on posting a dive report on the Seacam w/ 1Ds? Also what stobes are you using?

Thanks again, KeithMy Webpage

That would be strobes not stobes....sorry

To answer Keith ...

No, I don't think you have to have the S180 or S45. I have both, and rarely use my Pro viewfinder as a result, but then I wear reading glasses and appreciate the ability to do a +/- 3 diopter correction for my vision. In terms of percentage use:

S180 - 90% of the time

S45 - for over/unders mostly, or when I have 2 Seacam housings in the water at the same time.

Some of our shooters start with the Pro viewfinder and add a different viewfinder later. Some stay with Pro viewfinder and are happy. But clearly, the big viewfinders are a Seacam differentiator.

As for strobes, usually I use an Ike 200 or DS125 with my D1X or EOS1Ds. I like the capacity of the big batteries on the Ike strobes, plus the quick recycle time and model lights. Plus great service, but of course that's a given with Ikelite.

Finally, I doubt I'll write a user review for the EOS1Ds Seacam for Wetpixel because that would no doubt be self-serving. Hopefully Eric will post some of his thoughts as time goes on. His would be a very objective review and come from a good base of knowledge.

Steve

Thanks Steve for the information, I will continue to evaluate my options.

Enjoy Roatan, wish I was there. Keith

I purchased a Subal housing for my D100 earlier this year,

and had a number of problems with it. Subal was very slow

to correct these issues, and I am still waiting on my defective

SB80DX strobe housing to be replaced by them. It took 4 months

for them to deliver replacement parts for the camera housing,

which had numerous design defects, and now we're going on 6 months

for the strobe housing.

It makes me wonder how Subal ever earned the solid reputation

they seem to enjoy. I certainly don't give them high marks.

Have you considered the LMI Titan housing? I'm still quite intrigued

by it - the ROC controller looks pretty nifty. I am concerned about

the reliability of LMI's electronics, however. I had problems with

one of their SunRay lights, but at least they were responsive in

repairing it. So far I haven't heard of many complaints about the

Titan housing reliability, and I'm hoping it might indicate a higher

product quality than they used to ship.

I just finished a 2 week dive trip in the Philippines with the Subal C10 housing and the Canon 10D. Actually there were 3 of us on the trip using the same housing and camera....all I can say is that I can without any reservation recommend the Subal/10D combo. Everything worked flawlessly, over the course of 2 weeks, the 3 housings had 120 dives, 9000 frames put through them. For wide angle, the 15mm fisheye when used underwater for the 10D works extremely well behind the Subal DP-SWC dome port. I'm now looking at the Sigma 12-24 lens as a possible alternative. Someone on the trip was shooting the D100 in a Nexus housing with the 12-24 Nikkor and he loved it.

My 2 cents.

Stu

I always think that it is also really worth considering manufacturer and dealer support. If you have a good dealer for either system near to you then that should be a major factor in the decision making process.

Alex

Thanks for the feedback Stu. I wonder if something has changed with Subal's QC? I also agree that it certainly is nice to have a dealer close by, if possible. Cameratech in San Francisco, CA is the closest to me but it seems they are not dealing some of the most popular housings these days.

Keith

Keith,

I've owned Subals for 4 years, I've got friends who've had them longer, none of us have had any problems with our housings. In my immediate diving circle, we have 9 Subals between us. I'm sorry to hear about Bob's problems but a friend who had a similar issue with his strobe housing had no problems dealing with Subal. On this last trip, there were 3 Subal C10 housings, 1 Subal N10 housing and all worked perfectly.

Stu

Thanks Stu,

Just curious, but which strobe(s) are you using and are you shooting manual or TTL? I have become quite comfortable shooting manual with my current set up and what was once overwhelming seems now to be fairly straight forward.

1)Estimate distance from camera to subject, 2)adjust aperature to what I think should be correct exposure, 3)camera stays on 1/60th shutter speed to sync with the strobes, 4)focus/compose, 5)shoot, then 6)shoot 2 more frames, adjusting aperature to bracket. Now you can see why I am fired up about going digital, I will still brackett, but I won't burn through a roll of Velvia before my dive is over

Anyway if this is too off topic here, I will restate my questions about Subal housings and which stobes work best with Canon 10D.

Thanks, Keith

Hi Keith,

I used twin YS120's, usually set on half power and adjusted shutter speed and aperture to suit the shooting conditions. I mainly stayed at f8-16 for most shots. I was doing upwards of 70 images per dive. My dive times didn't vary much from shooting film but I got more shots of critters rather than saving the shot for something special.

Stu

For Stephen Frink -

does Seacam have any plans for a 10D housing? I'm only asking since they support the Nikon D100 which is not Nikon's top of the line pro camera like the F5 or D1X. With Canons, it's great they support the 1D and 1Ds, I'd like to see them support the next level down as well.

thanks,

Marty

I would to like to see a Seacam housing for the 10D or/and whatever is going to replace the 1D. When I bought my Aquatica A3 12 years ago for my Canon F1n, there were very few housings on the market and pretty much only two SLR camera choices - Nikon F3 or Canon F1 since both of these offered removable speed finders (of course there was Ikellite which could make you a housing for any camera you wanted but I am talking about aluminum housing offerings).

I am amazed at how many different vendors there are these days and I can not imagine how difficult it is for them to keep up with variety of DSLR's. The Canon F1 and Nikon F3 went years before sucessors came out, whereas now it is just a matter of months before one company comes out with the next generation DSLR. Now if only housing prices droped like DSLR prices....

Keith