Fujifilm S3pro

I think 200,000:1 is about 18 stops.

Hey, guys. We should wait to judge the S3 Pro, lest our forums become like an underwater version of dpreview forums!

Thom Hogan's reaction is definitely worth a read:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp...message=7539885

Cheers

James

Here's some good news:

Apparently the S3pro RAW files are 24 megapixels, or 2x the size of the old ones.

"There are 12 million sensors, 6 million S and 6 millioin R. Each one has a range of 14 bits which is represented in two bytes.

2 x 12 million = 24 million or 24 Mbytes.

The raw file contains both the S and R sensor image. "

A 14 bit file eh? Apparently that is where folks are getting the figure for the 2 Stops of extra dynamic range. Sounds promising.

To find out more about the SuperCCDsr, check out Phil Askey's presentation and slides from Fuji at:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0301/03012202...isuperccdsr.asp

More explanation of where the 2 stops comes from - it's the 4x sensitivity on the secondary sensor.

Too bad most printers can't come anywhere NEAR that kind of performance though...

Cheers

James

A stop is a doubling, so there is 10 stops in 1024:1 and 8 stops in 256:1. 200,000:1 is between 17 and 18 stops. Unless the image is processed internally at greater than 16 bit integer resolution, there's no way this could be since 18 stops cannot be represented in 16 bits. Of course, you could compress it, but that's what we're talking about.

Films compress dynamic range, so their input sensitivity and their output are not the same. Digital is not that way so you must be careful how you view these things. These high dynamic range images are simply a way to intelligently conpress the dynamic range of an image for presentation. When the range is wider than the sensor, you have to make multiple exposures.

Whats the chances of C+C bringing out a housing?

Where did you see the 14-bit spec, James? I find it peculiar.

Fuji says that there is a 2 stop difference in sensitivity between the two sites. It doesn't say that the sites have improved dynamic range themselves although it could be the case. I think it's odd that they would switch to 14-bit ADC's and wonder what the purpose behind that is.

On Thom Hogan's website and one other one. Supposedly the RAW files are 14 bit.

Cheers

James

The 200k:1 image I made was processed in .HDR format, which stores each color component as 32-bit floating point.

I think it takes clolse to at least that much to accurately capture the light in a shallow reef wide angle. Neither film nor digital can do it without help. Generally, the approximation of the truth that film delivers seems more pleasing than that on the current digital slrs. Perhaps the extra 2 bits in this new camera will close the gap.

When I started looking at the "blue" problem, I searched far and wide for some reference images to use as training for my algorithm but couldn't find any that actually didn't have over-exposure problems. Even "perfect"

looking slide scans when i examined their digitized color values had hue innaccuracies around the sunburst.

A stop is a doubling, so there is 10 stops in 1024:1 and 8 stops in 256:1.  200,000:1 is between 17 and 18 stops.  Unless the image is processed internally at greater than 16 bit integer resolution, there's no way this could be since 18 stops cannot be represented in 16 bits.   Of course, you could compress it, but that's what we're talking about.

Chris, do you have a reference for Velvia doing 6000:1? That would be 12.5 stops. Also what is the output dynamic range? My understanding is that slides are limited to about 7 stops on output and roughly 10 stops on input. 8 bit jpgs must be less than 8 stops.

It would be impressive for the S3 to achieve 11 stops yet it's a long way from 17.6 (200,000:1). How does one make such a determination of such huge range?

Chris G. have you tried this with different Exposure corrections out of a RAW file?

I a similar technique sometimes when I layer different Exposure corrected Versions of one Picturer ofer each other in PS and use Maskings to get from Each Version the Parts I want.

Simon

Here's a link to the Fuji brochure for the S3:

http://www.fujifilm.com/JSP/fuji/epartners...ProBrochure.pdf

Cheers

James

You're on George.  If you come to Seaspace in June, I'll be we can have this settled by then.

Tick tick tick tick tick

Is it done yet :evil: :evil:

The only thing that makes the S3 less vaporware than then D2X is the fact that we have seen a mockup :!:

FYI: Apparently, the S3 will be on display at a photo industry show in China starting 7/20/04.

Hi Craig,

I do not want to bring up an old discussion.

But I really don't see your bit to stop mapping.

The available steps (256 with 8 bit and and 4096 with 12 bit, ....)

do not describe the image dynamic range. They just describe how many steps within it's range are used to describe it.

If your sensor captures an image entirely filling it's dynamic range and you convert it to 8 bit, the dynamic range is not reduced in reference to the recorded image. There are just fewer steps within the range.

But black is still black and white mantains white.

If the dynamic range would be reduced (12bit to 8bit) then you would clip 4 stops on the black and/or white end. That's not the case. Nothing is clipped (unless you intend it). Just the gradiations steps from black to white are less.

regards,

Julian

Hi Craig,

 

I do not want to bring up an old discussion.    

 

But I really don't see your bit to stop mapping.

Hi Julian,

I suspect you're confusing Craig Ruaux of College Station, Texas, with Craig Jones, of Austin, Texas... Easy enough to confuse the two of us I suppose.

I'm the one in College Station, and I have no stated postion on bits-to-stops mapping.

OK, two Craigs, I got it now.

Any news on release date/TTL support?

No TTL support. It is D-TTL like the D100.

Cheers

James

The S3 is beginning to show up on the major camera shop websites. I will check to see if they are actually in stock. 2 weeks ago Yodabashi camera did not list it but they started offering it last week, I would guess that it is in the stores by now and if not soon will be.

I still want to see how it handles the sun in the background.

Chris

I checked with Yodobashi camera here in Japan. they are taking pre orders and shipping will be in October. Seems Fuji is having some problems getting this one finished.

Chris