300d/d70

Maybe a little premature, since the d70 has yet to hit the market. At dpreview there has already been a lot of discussion about the pros and cons of these cameras. I'll probably get one of these this spring (even though a housing will have to wait). Before I can make a decision I need to know what the UW implications are. I'll be buying in Japan, where the 300d is around 110 kYen with kit lens, and the d70 should be around 140 kYen with kit lens.

The 300d has already produced some stunning UW shots, as proven by several posters on this forum. It's a bit cheaper than the d70, but has been electronically crippled, so it has some limitations regarding amongst other things AF modes if I have understood it correctly. What I do not know is how these limitations affect UW use. But it will do TTL with the Aquatica housing, which to an inexperienced photographer like myself sounds great. But I really can't know how important this is.

The d70 costs a bit more but has a better kit lens (at least that's what everyone is assuming). The choices for WA lenses are better, eg the 10.5 dx lens. Burst mode is better, which should be useful when shooting with no flash, for instance trying to shoot fast moving marine mammals (I was in Norway in October swimming with Orcas, and with only 10 seconds with them within sight at a time, with the shutter lag of the 4040 thats about 3 shots). But TTL is not possible with the d70, so an option there would be to house a Nikon flash. How powerful is one of those flashes compared to UW ones? Is it only enough for macro shots? And how much are the flash housings roughly? There something called flash sync speed, which I don't understand, and apparantly this is better on the d70. Practical consequences?

At the dpreview forums there's been a lot of childish Canon vs Nikon arguments leading nowhere, but I think that is unlikely to happen here since people here aren't into this because of identification with a logo. In a way I realize I can't go wrong with either of these, but I'd still like to make an informed decision based on pros and cons. And I believe I'm not the only one trying to decide between these two cameras.

Any input appreciated!

I am leaning towards the D70. Here is an chart that you might find helpful:

http://www.digitalreview.ca/cams/NikonD70_page5.shtml

I don't think that you will go wrong with either system. Since Canon & Nikon lenses are not interchangeable, you are gambling on which line to stake your future in (ie: if you go with Canon / Nikon now, you will already have the lenses so future upgrades will be limited to Canon products....or you will have to buy all new lenses).

I am putting my money on Nikon (which will also fit Fuji).

TTL is nice for macro....but not a necessity in my opinion.

HTH,

David

I'm curious about the D70's kit lens as it seems pretty slow. You might be better off buying the body and just getting a 50mm 1/8 as your prime. Would be cheaper as well.

Pete

The 17 - 70 F 3.5 might be slow based on film experience but a 50MM is not wide enough for even everyday land use. Remember you have to multiply the lens focal lenghth by 1.5 to get the functional focal length for your digital body. A 50 becomes a 75.

Back to the original question for UW use I would go witht he Nikon for the wide angle lens offerings that are currently available. 10.5 and the 12 - 24.

I think most people would find the 15mm FE or 16mm FE more useful that the 10.5mm. A 180 degree fisheye is not a general purpose lens.

And if one were to go with the 300d + kit lens and one more lens, would the other lens be a macro or a WA? In other words, is the 17-55, although obviously inferior to a dedicated lens, better as a macro or as a WA?

Solely based on focal length, I'd tend towards a macro lens, either the 50mm or the 100mm. If you only have 2 lenses, I'd probably get the 100mm. My active set of lenses for UW use at this point is the Canon 17-40L, which I used 80% of the time last week in Cozumel, the 100mm macro (unfortunately not a lot of opportunity to use it last week, but I love the lens), and my 28-135 (which due to the port setup really only got used at about 28-80). Choosing 2, I'd go with the 17-40L and the 100mm.

The 17 - 70 F 3.5 might be slow based on film experience but a 50MM is not wide enough for even everyday land use. Remember you have to multiply the lens focal lenghth by 1.5 to get the functional focal length for your digital body. A 50 becomes a 75.

True, but I know quite a few folks using the 50 or the 85 as their prime land lens. Of course, they're more concerned with street portraits than WA so that makes sense.

As far as uw goes, I would also opt to go the nikon route just for the 12-24 alone.

The Nikon SB800 and older SB's take 4 AA batteries, so they are about as powerful as a DS50 or a Sea and Sea YS90

Hope that helps,

James Wiseman

As far as uw goes, I would also opt to go the nikon route just for the 12-24 alone.

But there's a Sigma 12-24 for Canon, right?

Choosing 2, I'd go with the 17-40L and the 100mm.

I can't afford those two, but I guess what you're saying is the kit lens + a 100 mm macro would be your recommendation?

I am not betting on the kit lens being desireable underwater. I would get it for topside. Underwater (if limited to 2 lenses) I would get the Sigma 15mm FE & the Nikon 60mm.

Solely my opinion (based on alot of research & question)!

what you're saying is the kit lens + a 100 mm macro would be your recommendation?

Yes, sorry, that's what I meant. What I was saying is that if I had to choose from my lenses only 2, those are the 2 I'd choose.

Hi Paul,

If you plan to buy the D70 or the Canon and not planning to house it for good while, I would lean towards a wide to medium zoom and a medium to long zoom. Both of these will give you everything you need topside.

Regarding what macro you'll require; well, you are welcome to use one of my set-ups to get the feel of the 60 & 105, as well as the w/a.

If you plan to buy the D70 or the Canon and not planning to house it for good while, I would lean towards a wide to medium zoom and a medium to long zoom. Both of these will give you everything you need topside.

Regarding what macro you'll require; well, you are welcome to use one of my set-ups to get the feel of the 60 & 105, as well as the w/a.

That would mean the kit lens plus something like a xx-300mm for topside? Regardless of camera? In light of your offer, I'd better go with the Nikon, in case I really like one of your Nikon lenses.

Good plan. :-)

All joking aside, let's say you are starting out from scratch and don't own any lenses, housing, ports, etc.

Start by looking at available housings - what will be available for each camera. Here's what we know and what I assume (in parens)

Nikon:

Aquatica

Ikelite

Nexus

(Subal)

(UK Germany)

(Jonah)

Canon 300d:

Aquatica

Ikelite

(Subal)

(UK Germany)

(Jonah)

Nexus doesn't do Canon housings.

OK, so the housing choices are slightly fewer for the Canon but not much diff.

Now on to camera body features:

Nikon has all the features of the 300D PLUS:

AF/AE lock w/o having to use the DOF preview button (important at f22)

MSC switch

Flash modes (rear, slow rear, etc)

Now on to lenses, Nikon has all of the same lenses as Canon (except about 20% higher price) PLUS:

12-24DX

70-180 Macro Zoom

10.5DX fisheye

60mm Micro goes 1:1

Feel free to correct me on any of this if I'm wrong. I've never done this comparison before, but I think it's overdue. Maybe material for an article.

Cheers

James Wiseman

Start by looking at available housings - what will be available for each camera. Here's what we know and what I assume (in parens)

All 300D housing solutions can be found here:

http://www.digideep.com/product.php?pType=...a&mID=7&pID=639

Housing announcements for the D70 will be tracked here:

http://www.digideep.com/product.php?pType=...&mID=25&pID=769

So if your trip is near and you do not own any lenses

or ports yet, the 300D is currently a sure thing.

Andi

Andi - might want to fix the digideep A300 listing, shows a 30 mt/ 100 ft rating, accdg to Aquatica's site, it's 300 feet....

Chris

I see everyone has listed the actual features of each camera in the comparison but no discussion of noise and sensors. I am assuming that this is due to the D70 being brand new.

I know it has been discussed with regards to the D100. I think you need to review these factors also in your decision. A wise man once told me that Canon will come out with the lenses you feel are currently missing so I would disregard that factor. (As mentioned Sigma already has the 12-24 for the Canon)

So Todd, when are these mythical lenses coming out? :-) I'm not the "wise man" you're referring to I hope. I've been called wise*** as the best of times...:-)

If Canon releases 1.6x crop lenses, the won't work with the 1.3x crop cameras that Canon makes. Not sure if that's a factor or not as Canon might regard "digital" lenses as consumer products.

But if they do, that's a different stance than Nikon has taken. Nikon's digital lenses are supposed to be "pro" quality.

Cheers

James