Canon Dreb kit lens + diopter = scratched domeport 5503

I'm having more trouble... Don't know why this is happening to me because I have tried NOT to be creative, just tried to really stick to doing everything "by the book"...

I got the Ike domeport 5503, which is the recommended port for the canon 18-55mm "kit" lens.

I also got a +4 diopter as per recommendation on Ikelite website. The diopter is a B+W NL4 regular +4 diopter, nothing fancy. It adds only about 3-4 mm to the length of the lens.

It looked as if the lens+diopter setup would fit the domeport. It does even when lens is fully extended at either 18 or 55 mm end, but only until you focus... when the focus ring moves, it scratches the inside of the domeport... which happened to me, so now I have an ugly scratch inside of the new domeport.

What should I do? Can the scratch somehow be removed or is the port toast? Is there another domeport that would better work for the kit lens?

All I want is to get out into the puddle with some happy healthy equipment.. maybe the planets are alingned wrong for that?

Well, I dont know what to do about the scratched port. You can try it and see if it shows up in the pictures. But contrary to ikelites website you do not need the +4 with the kit lens.

Marjo,

So much misinformation has been written on Wetpixel and other UW photo discussion forums regarding diopters I almost want to commit suicide....In the urge to get one more millimeter of perceived "sharpness" folks will add +1, +2 or as recommended in many manufacturer's instructions a +4 diopter so a zoom lens can focus UNDERWATER behind a dome port. Most folks miss the basic rule detailed below on minimum lens focus before they start experimenting.....

Some housing manufacturers recommend extension rings to "push" a dome port farther out or various length ports (Ikelite's solution) to achieve a balance of full range focus with zoom lense's constantly moving elements...... Then we muck it all up and add various diopters which as you've seen add length and scratch our ports inside! These inside scratches will definitely show up in your photos. Outside scratches of unbelievable depth are usually filled in by water and do not show up in photos.

General rule: If a lens cannot focus to 1 foot or less it will need a diopter to "see" the apparent image a dome port creates. This apparent image is somewhere between 8" to 1' or slightly more in front of a lens. Manufacturers cannot possibly forsee every brand lens whether Canon, Nikon or after market Sigma, Tokina, Tamron or other choices a photographer may choose to use underwater. Lens ports recommended by the housing manufacturer should be used without any extra skylight, UV or other filter to focus and extend properly within the physical length of the port.

I use the Canon 18-55mm "kit" lens without ANY diopter behind the #5503 Ikelite dome port as this length wil focus to 9". This same port will acommodate the after market Sigma 15mm Fisheye lens which focuses to 5.9".

Sorry if this sounded harsh, just drives me crazy

David Haas

davidhaas@sbcglobal.net

www.pbase.com/dhaas

Marjo,

One more comment....Some manufacturers do test name brand zoom lenses and recommend an extension ring for full range focus of a zoom lens WITHOUT a diopter. I believe mainly aluminum housing manufacturers where you add extension rings for various zoom lenses....I'm not super familiar with the Nexxus, Subal, and current Aquatica housing recommendations.

That said, years ago when I used a Nikon 24-50mm zoom lens that would only focus to about 1.5' behind an Aquatica 8" dome I had to add a +4 diopter to get full range focus capability......This was also before zoom lenses starting becoming popular with surface and underwater photographers.

I only added this coment to avoid flames from aluminum housed users who will post they don't use ANY diopters behind their extension pushed out dome ports

Hope all this helps,

David Haas

davidhaas@sbcglobal.net

www.pbase.com/dhaas

Hmmm.. confusing. From what I read here, I should have not followed the Ike recommendations...

On their site, on the very same page, the domw port is recomended AND it says you SHOULD get the diopter for this specific lens (canon EF-s 18-55)

For a newbie taking their new gear underwater, it is only logical to go with exactly what the manufacturere recommends = NOT experimenting. That is usually best recepie for avoiding dister in the beginning.

Or so I thought..

It does not seem logical that Ike would make recommendations and somehow as a newbie you should stumble upon a (non ike) website to find out what you really should be doing...

So basically... I've just lost $139... and some confidence in the info on a source I trusted... does not feel very nice

Dave,

We're not talking mis-information here - Marjo was following the instructions given by the manufacturer. And he wasn't using some exotic wideangle zoom lens - we're talking about the lens that comes with the camera.

So this is a problem and one that needs to be addressed ASAP by the manufacturer and by US to let people know to watch out.

As a general aside, there are now dozens of housing manufacturers making housings for many different cameras. None of these companies is going to make a port chart for the OTHER companies' housings now are they? This is where Wetpixel's forum and articles show their worth - a clearing house for information. I agree that it is confusing as recommendations conflict with the manufacturers' sometimes and the information is spread out in the forums.

So if you are dis-satisfied with the quality and location of the information on dome ports, lenses, and diopters, I invite you to write it up in an article so that all of the information will be in one place and easy to understand. You can send the article to me and I'll be happy to post it on Wetpixel.

Marjo - I'd drop Ikelite and email and ask them to send you a new dome port with a few extra millimeters extension on it - I'm sure they will be happy to do so.

Cheers

James

I'd hope the manufacturer would have tested this lens with the suggested accesories - obviously not! Unfortunately canon lens info is quite hard to come by. I had previosly tried to work out the diopter issue from the Ike website, and worked out my 17-40L doesn't need a diopter based on minimum focusing distance. What's the minimum focusing distance of your kit lens?

Ryan from underwater photo pros kindly emailed me some info yesterday, and he mentioned diopter isn't necessary with the aquatica dome + Rebel kit lens.

It's great to here some feedback from people using the 18-55 EF-s (and other Canon lenses) about what does or doesn't work. The more info the better.

Cheers,

Rob

P.S. It was noted above that sea water would fill even really deep scratches externally on a dome port. So I figure in this case all you need to do is find a way to fill the inside of your dome port with sea water?

To be fair - all diopters are different sizes as there are many different brands to choose from, so the one that Ikelite tried may have worked fine.

Cheers

James

i posted a question back in march about this very same issue--look at the postings on page three--- i did this shortly after i received my housing and dome port. i even sent e-mail to ikelite asking this question--is it necessary to use a +4 diopter close up lens with the kit lens, and i was told no, it is not necessary, so i do not use one...sorry to hear your dome port got scratched. i would call ike and complain that the info posted on their web site is inaccurate per their own employees and have them send you a replacement free of charge...that's what i would do. jay treat even made them aware of this information back in march. i hope this helps!!

Marjo: E-mail shipping address to me <ike@ikelite.com> and we will send you a replacement port. Web site has "Shown with #5503 dome port for EFS 18-55mm zoom lens which operates without + diopter close-up requirement." Your accident indicates we need to include a warning with the instructions which some people like me never read............

Ike, glad to hear that your website has the proper information. I stand corrected - I was just assuming that since Marjo thought he had to use the diopter, he read about it on your site.

Cheers

James

Marjo may have picked up on the +4 general recommendation in our Photo Tips and Help section and following URL: http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/qdiopter.html

The particular zoom lens included with the Digital Rebel camera and some of the other new lenses for digital cameras work very nicely without any close-up lens addition.

Ike. Its good to see that you have updated your website. BUT, you shouldnt deny that the website used to say that it was necessary on the 300D page and it still says it on the port chart.

I based my desision on the port chart page; I scrolled down to "Canon", then looked at the EF-S 18-55 mm lens , and there was only one port listed as compatible. There was a asterisk * next to the lens, and when I went to read what that meant, it said that a +4 diopter is needed to fully use the lens. There was also a text saying that one should confirm the measurements, but as newbie I either overlooked that disclaimer, or just trusted that since only one port was listed, this would be correct.

In hindsight I have learned to be more careful.

Anyhow, I would like to thank all of you on Wetpixel for being there and sharing your knowledge and experience. This has truly been a incredibly useful and unique resource! Absolutely fantastic!

I also commend IKE for being such an active participant on this site, and coming out to offer solutions. Actually, the reason for me choosing to go with the Ike housing as opposed to one of the many other options, was that a friend of mine who is much more experienced than myself (fellow wetpixelite Kasey) told me of the great reputation Ike has for good service! I truly know and appreciate the value of good after-sales service and support, being that in "real life" I'm an in IT mngr and deal with the realities of "systems" breaking down/not working as designed on a daily basis... Things do break down, designs and info is improved upon, stuff happens... however the real test of value is revealed in how the vendor deals with the solution

So Thanks Ike for offering to send a replacement port. You will have my e-mail and shipping info in a few minutes.

Thanks again all you wetpixelites and Ike!

James and Marjo,

Yes, there was a general recommendation on the Ikelite web site that zoom lenses may require a +4 diopter to "see" effectively behind a dome port. I believe Ike and other manufacturers always attempt to make sure a lens will clear mechanically inside the shortest port usable to avoid vignetting.

That said, they cannot guarantee a lens will fit if a diopter of any thickness is added, especially if it's not needed per the lens minimum focusing specs.....

I very clearly remember lots of post when folks began using the Nikon 12-24mm DX lens which focuses to less than 1'. Some never used a diopter (which allowed them to shoot through the port above water, too) and some folks swore a +1, +2 or even +4 was what they ended up liking after experimenting.

I apologize if my posts seem harsh. That was never my intent as I want Marjo and other UW shooters to be happy with their new toys, too! And as we've seen Ike is a true customer service oriented manufacturer.

Finally, I don't think any housing/port/lens chart could stay current...plus I don't have all different brands of housings to even attempt a chart. Any time I get a new lens after reviewing the physical specs and determining which port will likely work I check it out on my bench first on MF (the only time I EVER use manual focus to make sure it won't hit the inside of a port...

I also determine if a diopter will work UW by sticking the housing down in a 5 gallon pail filled with water and pennies on the bottom. Or you could use a utility tub or anything else 1' or deeper......

Zoom lenses are here to stay, but adapting them to dome ports and use underwater will always be a challenge.....

Good shooting Marjo!

David Haas

davidhaas@sbcglobal.net

www.pbase.com/dhaas

dhaas wrote:

Yes, there was a general recommendation on the Ikelite web site that zoom lenses may require a +4 diopter to "see" effectively behind a dome port.

David,

I do not agree that the recommendations was "general", nor do I agree that the word "may require" were used. The word used by Ikelite on the site is "require".

This text is copied from the website http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/port_chart.html and directly pasted to this post:

CANON Dome Flat Port Flat w/focus

*18-55mm EF-S #5503 --------- ---------

 

(*) Zoom Lenses require addition of a +4 diopter close-up to the lens for full range operation underwater behind a dome port. .

Having said this, I still think it is great that Ike came out to offer me a solution, hopefully this thread will help make the necessary changes to avoid confusion for future customers.

Also, thanks for your ideas on how to set the need for a diopter. This is certainly useful now after making the purchase, to decide if and what dioter could be used. However, for someone who is looking to purchase their first setup, it is not helpful, as obviously, you do not have that option to try this until you have actually purchased the gear. When making the purchasing decision, a "to bee uw shooter" still need to be able to rely on the data provided by the manufacturer.

This has been an excellent thread and has reinforced several things to me:

1. Wetpixel is a great resource for information....actually, I already knew that!

2. I intend to rely on my informed dealer of choice...in my case, Ryan at Underwater Camera Pros....to guide me with these equipment choices when purchasing my new D70 housing

3. Don't totally trust the manufacturers websites when it comes to specifics.....ask questions

Karl

Marjo,

You are correct that the web site listed a +4 as "required" in that area...I'm pretty happy as I hope you are that Ike himself responded and wants you to be happy using his equipment to make great UW images!

Karl also has a good point. In our zeal to get the cheapest price we unrealistically expect a super discount dealer to know all specs on cameras, lenses and now even underwater gear. I've always told people you can buy a box of parts anywhere...If you buy from a "user", in this case someone who actually uses the gear below the waves they can provide invaluable information with the equipment purchase.

As Ryan is a dealer I too am an Ikelite dealer and shooter. I try and keep up on cameras, lenses, and more to help customers get the most out of their equipment.

Hope you enjoy your new system

David Haas

Yes, I also bought my gear from Ryan... with the exception of the domeport, which he did not have in stock at the time and which I had another way of obtaining. Ryan has been great, offered me advise of the correct cord to use, service was fast etc This was definetly NOT in any way caused by UWCP.

I am sure you David and a good person to purchase from as well.

So although this particular problem was not caused by "looking for a cheapie deal", I do agree with the 3 points made by kdietz.

You guys are good. I have looked and looked trying to figure out why you thought the + diopter was required. I didn't even see the asterisk, much less know why I put it there. Chart was started years ago when digital pertained to numbers between zero and nine. Proves I don't read any better than I think. Will cogitate and remove some of the asterisks............