Skill versus equipment

Folks,

I read on www.steves-digicams.com today, under the "Breaking News" section that photojournalist Alex Majoli won the 2004 Press Photographer of the year award for his coverage all shot with an Olympus C5050 camera...Hmmmmmmm.....If you like PJ images each one tells a great little story. Seems like shutter lag and other technical mumbo jumbo didn't inhibit his creative vision.

This is an example that it's more important to maximize the tools you have rather than lusting after the next gizmo.....

I once saw a PBS segment on Photojournalism where a photographer was assigned to shoot a story on a person who's house burned down, leaving tehm desitute. He analyzed the situation and decided what message his photograph would portray....Then he clicked off 3 frames. All good, but one with incredible impact.

As we all try and make photos what is YOUR message? This is something I'm constantly challenging myself to do when I'm alone with my thoughts underwater......Think, think, think before you click

Food for thought......

David Haas

Canon EOS300D w/18-55mm "kit" lens, Ikelite housing and single DS125 strobe......[/b][/i]

David,

If you haven't done so already, check out the 2004 EPIC winners. Don Hughes aka meister won the digital category using an Olympus consumer camera (5050 I think). He beat out myself and Rod Klein who both use DSLR's.

When the judged/viewed image is only 1200 pixels wide, just about ANY camera can win - it's how you use it that counts.

That doesn't mean I'd pick a camera with shutter lag over one with no shutter lag though...:-)

Cheers

James

On the Shutter lag subject:

I just switched from Compact to DSLR:

It is a question of the subjects you are photographing.

I made good pictures with my compact camera, probably better then I do with my DSLR now because I'm still in the process of learning to use my DSLR underwater.

But there where a lot of (mostly fast and unpredictibel moving) subject that I couldn't get even useable pictures with my S40 and had no problems to photograph them with the DSLR.

You won't see PJ using compact cameras in the sport sector, but for photoreportages a good, small, less invasive camera that you don't even have to put on your eye to use can be a very good tool.

Cameras are just tools: you need the right tool for a specific job. With more skill you will be able to get out more of a not optimal tool, without skill the best fiting tool will bring no good results.

After tried out both I found, that the DSLR is the more difficult tool to use UW but the tools that fits - at least my - requirements for this kind of photography much better.

Simon

Ah discussion!

I agree with James (yes, I perused the EPIC winners which were all great, congrats to all the Wetpixel members who won, placed or showed I didn't intend the post to be about the pros and cons of various equipment. Sure, a fast moving shark or dolphin is better captured with a dSLR. Though sometimes I long for that little TV screen to frame with....I'm actually dissapointed the new crop of 8 megapixel cameras (Olympus C8080, Nikon 8700 and Canon PRO1) don't seem to have great low light focusing capability or faster shutter response.....I wanted to get one and see what I could do with it......So for now it's the El Cheapo' Digital Rebel which more than serves my needs.....

I just wanted to stimulate thought about imaging and the impact a photo should have. IMHO most UW photography is still mired in super sharpness fanaticism, color as a crutch for poor framing and very little pursuit of "mood" in photos. Repeating the same old, same old shots we've seen on slide film in magazines for years....Come on guys, throw caution to the wind and experiment!!!!! Unless you're a science geek (and I mean this in fondest terms because I truly enjoy observing and maybe capturing behavior and critters interacting) digital shoting should be a tool to just go crazy!

Someone posted a photo the other day (can't remember which forum) where they purposely turned off one strobe to ADD shadows versus dual and sometimes flat total coverage lighting. I loved it! Just wish we'd see more of it......

For lack of better term I want to make photos that are almost "dreamlike". Whether I start with a static image and create it in the comptuer or am lucky enough (maybe with some skill) to catch the light and reef, critter or whatever at the right time for a photograph to have impact...

Still trying to do more with less stuff......

David Haas

David, keep posting threads like this as I like the thought that they inspire.

I should add James that the 5050 would have also beat out the 1Ds also. (Assuming Eric entered a shot or two with it.) I have to admit I have seen some amazing stuff with those Olympus cameras.

PJs aren't in need of 14 megapixels. They don't carry around 4x5 sheet film cameras any more. They are trying to capture a moment, not paint a beautiful image. It's not fine art. Their print requirements are often not very demanding.

Ansel wouldn't carry a pocket digicam. A PJ wouldn't use Ansel's 8x10. People/street shooters like small rangefinders and super fast lenses (i.e. no flash used). I don't like walking around with my 35mm for shooting on the street. I sometimes carry the "consumer" digicam as opposed to the DSLR for this reason.

Not to diverge too much, but photography, ESPECIALLY photojournalism has a LOT to do with being in the right place at the right time. They don't have the expression "F8 and be there." for nothing, right?

I think it's the same for underwater photography. Like Dave says, judges and photographers are tired of seeing the same shots all the time. Well, that's because people go to the same places, dive guides point out the same subjects, etc. No wonder a lot of the shots look the same.

I think the trick is to look for interesting and different subjects, and to photograph the "same old" subjects in a different way.

Cheers

James

James and Todd have hit the nail on the head simultaneously! Portray the familiar in a whole new way.....

I'd also debate the print issue versus a photograph's impact......Yes, photojournalists don't have 13"x19" prints in mind when they shoot. But many tack sharp underwater images I see printed still lack passion.....soul......or any real message other than "here's MY pretty sharp, colorful clownfish photo". The occassional exception (who posted the photo of the wrasse "kissing" the clownfish recently?) is what I'm talking about. The same photographer had a fantastic "swirl" around a Napoleon Wrasse .......(Who was it? I think he was testing his 10.5mm Nikon lens...)

Analyzing your own work and throwing aside all but the best, and hopefully new and unique is a constant struggle. Maybe it's also about accepting new techniques such as selective focus. Like macro shots where we ALWAYS preach f22 for depth of field....WHY??? I've seen some great stuff of Chris Newbert's and maybe Burt Jones/Maureen Shimlock (???) who've gone the other way shooting macro at f5.6 or even f2.8! It's done every day in flowers, people, etc. Why, oh why, aren't we trying this stuff underwater?

Sitting in Ohio anticipating my first group trip to the Bahamas May 28th has me salivating at all these ideas I want to attempt. The dolphins and sharks are a helter skelter frenzied type of shoooting and the real work starts afterward. On the computer selecting ones I think have merit and deserve further enhancement. Reef shooting plus critters are whole different ball game I hope to tackle in new ways.

Keep the ideas coming......

David Haas

photography is an art form. i see too many pictures win contests that are technically beautiful, but boring. i see the same pictures over and over, including many of mine, that look the same. I dont need to see one more pygmy sea horse pic portrat win anything . Lets see and reward creativity. i agree and felt the same about the guy who tryed using one flash. the most common thing i see underwater is divers who never touch their flashes. have fun

I agree that UW shooters feel that if a shot is sharp exposed right and colorfull that it is acceptable. Composition, content, mood and balance as well as other qualities are only found in the best shooters.

That same old frogfish shot.... the colorfull creature sitting on a rock is getting old. When is that critter going to do something.

The UW photographer of today, accept for his digital camera, is at about the same level as the one man band flash on camera shooters, pre 35mm. Think WEEGEE.

The viewer should relate to the picture, he should put himself in it, he should feel it. Art comes from using/honning your skills till they become second nature and are forgotten, then the soul comes through and you have art. Go to a good gallery show, read the photo history books....how can you relate those shots to UW. Previsualize...sketch your shot list... what would you like the picture to say to the viewer. The shot needs to convey an idea or teach the viewer some deeper insight into the subject.

My own schooling is in Cinema and photojournalism. Catch the History channel Deep Sea detective series. The show on the Atocha and Henrieta marie both use about twenty of my images and movies as well as on camera interviews.

Splash,

Don Kincaid

David,

 

If you haven't done so already, check out the 2004 EPIC winners.  Don Hughes aka meister won the digital category using an Olympus consumer camera (5050 I think).  He beat out myself and Rod Klein who both use DSLR's.

 

When the judged/viewed image is only 1200 pixels wide, just about ANY camera can win - it's how you use it that counts.

 

That doesn't mean I'd pick a camera with shutter lag over one with no shutter lag though...:-)

 

Cheers

James

Interesting thread here. That shot was taken with an Olympus 4040, internal strobe... Don

As I move through the learning curve, I'm beginning to believe that most of the really great shots with true impact, are the result of being in the right place at the right time. For those who dive just a few times a year, it may take several years for the right circumstances to present themselves. In the mean time, working with common subjects, practicing with lighting and exposure allows me to get experienced with the camera, so when the time comes, I'll be ready.

My Shark pic was also taken with the Oly 4040. Probably the sharpest W/A shot I've ever taken. (What shutter lag?) :-)

I'm too attached to my wetmate system right now. Waiting for Herb Ko to return from Lembeh with the dRebel shots. He will probably have enough ammo to make me want to switch. :-(

Rand

When the judged/viewed image is only 1200 pixels wide, just about ANY camera can win - it's how you use it that counts.

...

Cheers

James

A special congratulations goes out to Don's camera for winning. It'll probably want to take the week liveaboard trip to the Lexmark manufacturing facility instead of Palau, though. (Only messing with you, James)

Once again, Dave, you've touched up on a good topic. I enjoy these because they go beyond the physics of photography - something I know nothing about.

I think Donovan touched up on a very good point that I find myself doing more and more each day after visiting the same areas and seeing the same critters time and time again. This is not to say I find these areas at all boring for I love diving first - shooting photos second.

When I'm back home looking over the images I've taken, I find myself day dreaming of some new way to photograph that subject that almost seems impossible. I'll usually sketch the idea so I won't forget and the day before I head out to dive the same place again, I find myself focused on trying to accomplish that particular shot.

At this point I have already previsualized the settings I should use on my camera, at what angle I'm going to take the photograph, the backdrop, my lighting technique, so on and so forth... Then it just becomes a matter of having a little patience and waiting for the moment - sometimes an entire dive. All this goes to waste if there's a cute girl on the boat.. then I totally forget everything I was going to do. NEW RULE - No cute girls on photography liveaboard trips!

The question now becomes what to do differently. I'm sure we are all full of ideas we would love to experiment with. Personally, even with the amount of time I spend diving, my dives (and wallet) can not keep up with my sketch book of ideas.

So how can you photograph a Pygmy Sea Horse differently? I think Tony Wu has got one of those perfect examples here. For me, well I'm still trying to find one of these little critters here in Florida. I'll find'em! And by then I'll know just how I'd like to photograph it - Secret Method #6721A128Z.

Can't give'em all away!

Art comes from using/honning your skills till they become second nature and are forgotten, then the soul comes through and you have art.

Well put, Donovan. This is the reason why I'm still shooting with my Olympus 5050. I'm still goofin' up on the ISO so there's definitely still a lot more to learn. Imagine the craziness if I switched over to a dSLR now!?!?

Sitting in Ohio anticipating my first group trip to the Bahamas May 28th has me salivating at all these ideas I want to attempt. The dolphins and sharks are a helter skelter frenzied type of shoooting and the real work starts afterward. On the computer selecting ones I think have merit and deserve further enhancement. Reef shooting plus critters are whole different ball game I hope to tackle in new ways.  

 

Keep the ideas coming......

 

David Haas

Sitting in Miami anticipating as well.. I'm racking my brain for new photo ideas for the trip. Maybe I should bring my kayak.. This is gonna be fun!

You know, Dave. The dolphins don't really have to be a helter skelter frenzy. We could work together to coherce the dolphins into the right spot for the shot. A good piece of sargassum seaweed, a couple of underwater flips and some sand lifting will catch their attention - I'm sure. If not, we can dress up Jimmy Da Fish as a female dolphin.. That's gotta work!

Oh but wait.. Who is to say Tony or myself won't make a move on her not realizing its Jimmy Da Fish in costume. Better not go with that last idea!

Now the shark photos.. I think we need to talk to Spot (the Tiger shark) about trying for some freaked-out diver's face shots. That's different! Shouldn't be too hard for a 12 foot Tiger to accomplish.

To all who replied to this thread, THANKS! Hope I got everyone thinking.

The Tony Wu Pygmy seahorse photo is exactly what I was talking about. Selective focus, great background color and a word I use in my informal photography teaching, isolation....

The underwater world is a chaotic environment and if we want to show it to people we need to isolate some main subject from all the rest of the mess. Used to be real tough to do with that film stuff, but with digital if you frame tight to start with then crop this can change the impact of a photo immensely....

Laz, are there really Pygmy seahorses in the Atlantic and/or Caribbean? Oh crap, just when I thought I was never going to shoot macro again

Hope this thread brightened everyone's day.

David Haas

Laz, are there really Pygmy seahorses in the Atlantic and/or Caribbean? Oh crap, just when I thought I was never going to shoot macro again

 

David Haas

There are Dwarf Seahorses so why not Pygmy's? They just haven't been discovered yet.. Now it's just a matter of thinking like one in order to find out where they live...

If I was a Pygmy Seahorse would I live near Madonna's beach house or Julio Iglesia's? Hmmmm..... :?

No, I got it! Near Vanilla Ice's crib! ICE ICE BABY!

Now thats a different pygmy sea horse! That is special. It doesnt mean that the "standard shot" is bad, it"s that many of the others are not wow shots. I like to see wow shots win. Of coarse that is subjective, and dependent on the judges, who ultimately decide their opinions. thats art, and we all have are own opinions. Thats part of the fun or it, and for those of us who do it as a hobby, feel lucky jusy to be in the running. have fun

I find Rand and I talk and exchange ideas about composition and lighting ideas more than technical aspects of shooting. Might be because we are like Laz and are not that versed in the lingo yet though.

I relate it back to sports and visualization. Watch ski racers before a race going through the motions of the course prior to their start. You always need a goal to focus on or you will just be wandering around aimlessly.

And, Laz hopefully Anna is not on board for your sake also! :wink:

Hi!

There are people hating her because of her Nazi past and people adoring her because of her ability in imaging: Leni Riefenstahl.

She learnt diving at the age of 71 and still did it shortly before she died, aged 101. She released a great book with uw-images, some examples you'll find at http://www.leni-riefenstahl.de/eng/photo/p_unter.html.

Like an abstract painter, she goes for the effect and impact of the image, rather than documenting an object.

It's also worth to visit the other galleries. I've got one of the books recently. Most of the images are technically "dump it" but rich in expression and full of dynamic life. No flash, a small Leica pointed without looking through the finder, at the right moment in the right direction.

Amazing, what nearly 80 years of photography can do to your experience ;-)

Helge ;-)=)

Some of Leni's stuff is quite nice, we need not discuss her politics. I am shocked though to find that things I always thought were anemones were in fact giant octopus (her photo 2). I find that the more I shoot above water and take classes above water, the better the UW pics become.