GH4 with 14-42mm lens or LX100?

Hi all,

I'm in a dilemma. The Panasonic LX100 is 24-70mm with Power OIS. It seems comparable to the GH4 with the Lumix G X Vario PZ 14-42mm, which also has Power OIS. The LX100 has faster Leica lens, and half the price of the GH4.

I'm concern about if there would be any housing for the LX100 because the hot shoes flash for the LX100 is awkward, and the biggest problem is the LX100 has very long lens barrel, so making a housing for it might not be possible.

Anyway, I'm weighting out the price of going with the GH4 solution since it has better housing support like tripod ready, angled handle, vacuum leak test ready etc. If I were to get the 14-42mm lens for the GH4, does that mean I have to get the Nauticam P1442X-pz gear ($220) and the Nauticam Macro Port 35 ($290), so essentially additional cost of $510 just to use the PZ 14-42mm lens for the GH4?

Sorry I never use an interchangeable lens system under water so I don't know what gear is needed for what port, or if some lens even need gear if it has power zoom.

Moses

Wait until the situation with lx100 housing becomes clear? The 4K crop on the lx100 is much less so the camera will have more field of view at wode end. This will become a disbenefit at tele end compared to the GH4 but both cameras will need diopters. If you are thinking of only using one lens with the GH4 you really should wait

Yea I'm hoping to just use one lens for now (14-42mm with wetlens) since my budget is limited. I know the 7-14mm is good for wide angle on the GH4, but all the lens, dome cost are adding up, besides, I still prefer to shoot wide/portrait and macro in one dive. I have a small dive trip coming up in December. I was hoping to be able to use my new system to practice before heading out to Anilao next March.

I think the LX100 will be available to the market mid October, and early November in some area. I don't know how long it would take Nauticam to decide to make a housing for it. They made the Sony A6000 housing about a month after the camera was announce. But given the LX100 is more complex, I don't think it's realistic to expect a housing in December. But if there is no housing for the LX100 by around January, I will have no choice but go with the GH4 system.

With the 4k crop the GH4 will be useless with the 14-42mm bare port unless you only shoot close ups

With the 4k crop the GH4 will be useless with the 14-42mm bare port unless you only shoot close ups

"Useless" is a rather wild statement and quite incorrect.

At the wide-end behind a flat port, the 14-45mm makes a good MS lens. For example, recently in Komodo, I was able to get some footage of the whole body of a very large octopus by pulling back to about 1.5 meters away and, from 2 to 3 meters distance, I was able to shoot the octopus sitting on a coral head. So with the flip diopter, one lens was able to give me CU of the octopus eye, a wider CU of its head, its entire body and its environment.

Not what I'd call "useless".

Regards

Peter

Hi all,

 

I'm in a dilemma. The Panasonic LX100 is 24-70mm with Power OIS. It seems comparable to the GH4 with the Lumix G X Vario PZ 14-42mm, which also has Power OIS. The LX100 has faster Leica lens, and half the price of the GH4.

 

I'm concern about if there would be any housing for the LX100 because the hot shoes flash for the LX100 is awkward, and the biggest problem is the LX100 has very long lens barrel, so making a housing for it might not be possible.

 

Anyway, I'm weighting out the price of going with the GH4 solution since it has better housing support like tripod ready, angled handle, vacuum leak test ready etc. If I were to get the 14-42mm lens for the GH4, does that mean I have to get the Nauticam P1442X-pz gear ($220) and the Nauticam Macro Port 35 ($290), so essentially additional cost of $510 just to use the PZ 14-42mm lens for the GH4?

 

Sorry I never use an interchangeable lens system under water so I don't know what gear is needed for what port, or if some lens even need gear if it has power zoom.

 

Moses

In the end it's always a personal choice involving several trade-offs.

I suggest that you don't get too concerned about OIS. It's designed to reduce typical hand-shake - more important for "above water" photography. Underwater, the movements are different from hand shake. OIS doesn't deal with it well. Shooting WA underwater, OIS is not required - housing balance and technique is more important. For underwater macro, no OIS will overcome camera movement - other forms of stabilization are required, e.g. tripod.

Regards

Peter

An octopus is not exactly wide angle and you don't want to go further away than needed. If I was shooting 4K with a gh4 I would invest on few lenses. Would not use the camera just with a 14-42mm

Both cameras have OIS.

The advantage of the GH4 is you can change your mind and get different lenses.

The 100 is too attractive for use UW. I imagine that manufactures will work with the hot flash.

The biggest question I with the GH4 will cost you over twice as much to take UW

Thanks Peter for your helpful response. I'm thinking of the 14-42mm lens could be a starter / general purpose lens for now especially when budget is limited.

Dave, the LX100 (or any "Point & shoot") also allows user to "change your mind", by getting different wet lens, or different strength of diopter. Swapping out a different wet lens generally cost less than $400 (especially Macro), so it's what still draw me to stay in the point & shoot system. I have been keeping an eye on interchangable system, just hearing that it would cost $800+ for a Zen dome is like getting a stab in the heart.

Another big concern is packing for dive trip, with all the port, lens, and gear for interchangable system, it is going to be a nightmare. January is still a long way to go, hopefully the LX100 will be selling like a hot cake and housing manufacturer would take the opportunity and seriously thinking about making a housing for it. Even Inon should start consider making a new version of WA wet lens as their UWL-H100 lens are getting less and less compatible with the newer generation of point and shoot.

Yes, I have wet diopter a for a Sony RX100

All those lenses are optimized for a 28 mm lens, not the 24 mm equivalent on the LX100

The macro should be good on the LX100. It is not on the RX100.

I use my RX100 as a backup to my GX7. It fulfills that role very well.

However It does not come close to my GX7 except in convenience and cost.

I am interested n the 100 as a replacement for my RX100. Still, the ability to adapt to adapt to different lenses will never be surpassed.

 

 

Another big concern is packing for dive trip, with all the port, lens, and gear for interchangable system, it is going to be a nightmare. January is still a long way to go, hopefully the LX100 will be selling like a hot cake and housing manufacturer would take the opportunity and seriously thinking about making a housing for it. Even Inon should start consider making a new version of WA wet lens as their UWL-H100 lens are getting less and less compatible with the newer generation of point and shoot.

The camera is reported to be 26mm at 4K, this is indeed quite surprising as I would have thought more around 28mm. We need to see the physical size of the lens and how the zoom works before making statements but the UWL-H100 would work as it does on the RX100 Mark III at 24mm without vignetting

There is however a lot of fringing

One thing you certainly want to consider is that due to the multi aspect of the sensor the 26mm correspond in fact to a 24mm with crop on top and that means in terms of horizontal field of view you get the same of a 3:2 at 24mm which I think is around 73-75 degrees. This starts to be acceptable with a wet mate port and that will definitely work regardless of the shape of the lens

So best case Inon UWL-H100 with 104.5 degrees diagonal, worse case wet mate with 79.52 both are better than the GH4 with bare port or wet mate after 4K crop

You can actually use a wet lens designed for 35mm lenses over the 35 port but I am not sure about quality still this will be more expensive than the GH4

I am pretty confident a housing will be produced but am waiting for detail testing of the LX100 and the release of the user manual that really is what defines if the camera is going to be good

Looks like I might have to consider getting the GoPro Hero 4 while waiting for the LX100. If the LX100 housing has wide angle challenge, then at least the goPro could be a back up/B camera. Hmm... something to consider.

First review of the LX100 is out, there are footage of 4K shot with the LX100:

The EVF and not having touch/tilt screen doesn't make any different when come to scuba diving. The questions, how important is not having the Cine-D profile?

Looks like the Video feature of the LX100 has been compromised:

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Panasonic_Lumix_LX100/

So I got myself the GH4!!!!!!

 

So I got myself the GH4!!!!!!

You will not be disappointed. I'm happy with the results I'm getting.

Here is an example of a video that I've just finished editing: http://www.peterwalker.com/komodo.html

It demonstrates the camera's capabilities both WA (7-14mm lens with Zen 170mm dome), Macro (14-45mm PZ plus flip Subsee +5 dioptre) and above water (12-35mm plus polarising filter). I did all the editing in 4K and then compressed to 1080P just before uploading to Vimeo.

Next step is to attach the Atomos Shogun and get that underwater (hopefully before the end of this year) then have the depth of 10bit 422 ProRes to play with for even more flexibility in editing.

Regards

Peter

Thanks Peter! I'm starting out with the 14-45mm with diopter first as I have an upcoming trip to Anilao in March. I will move to Florida next Summer so then I can justify buying dedicated WA lens and port. You should be able to use the 12-35mm lens under the Zen dome port right?

Thanks Peter! I'm starting out with the 14-45mm with diopter first as I have an upcoming trip to Anilao in March. I will move to Florida next Summer so then I can justify buying dedicated WA lens and port. You should be able to use the 12-35mm lens under the Zen dome port right?

Yes, the 12-35mm works in the Zen dome port just fine. I'm planning to use that lens for shooting Octopus in Lembeh. The fast 2.8 aperture across the whole zoom range is excellent, given some nice DoF options. In the dome port, it focuses very close for some wide close-up shots.

However, for larger subjects, divers and underwater vistas, I prefer the 7-14mm lens (also in the Zen port) as it enables closer shooting (i.e. less water between lens and subject) without chopping off the edges. Even at the 12mm end of the 12-35mm lens, you need to get back a bit to fit in a whole diver or a school of fish.

Regards

Peter

Looks like the Video feature of the LX100 has been compromised:

 

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Panasonic_Lumix_LX100/

 

So I got myself the GH4!!!!!!

Cameralabs reviews are dangerous

You can work out yourself that because the sensor is 11Mp at 16:9 when it goes to 4K or 8M it only has 0.85x crop on both axis which means 1.08x zoom

24x1.08=25.92 about 26mm

So where is the scaling exactly?

From CameraLabs: " I'd understand if the LX100 took the whole frame width to maintain coverage before scaling it, as indeed it does for 1080p, but instead it takes a crop somewhere between the full width and the actual 4k dimensions and scales that."

I think this imply that the LX100 take a crop between 11M (for 16:9) and 8M then scale to 4K, like taking the 10M area and scale to 8M instead of a 1:1 crop like the GH4. Besides that, he mention the IS on the LX100 is not as good as the previous Lumix. Of course this will need to be verify for upcoming review and real world user test in Youtube. But putting a M43 sensor in such small body to provide smooth PowerIS could be a challenge, it wouldn't surprise me if some of the IS were done with software instead of optic. Not having CinemaD and Cinema 24fps could also make it less of a real pro level point and shoot.

I ordered my GH4 for US$280 less than the price everywhere so I pulled the plug. I'm not going to buy the NA-GH4 housing until some time next month. I have been pricing the NA-GH4 housing with the set up I need, it would cost around US$3000, which is enough to buy a LX100 and the housing for the LX100 (if Nauticam do make it), but I need to be convinced that the LX100 is more if not as versatile as the LX-7 especially when come to wide angle. I will be moving to Florida soon so I think it's time to be serious about Wide Angle for shark, wreck etc instead of small stuffs that I typically see in South East Asia.

The scaling calculation he does is wrong there is no scaling the camera is 11 mega to start. Generally I find cameralabs reviews from useless to misleading so won't loose my sleep over what he says. Will wait until there is a housing before making further comments but this is a device that will cost much less than the GH4 with all bits in so should not expect anything too exotic. The comparison of the clips I have seen shows similar results will need to wait for something more serious like eoshd to have a view