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so is this camera as good as everyone says it is? will nikon or anyother company be comming out with another camera that is better or is there another cam out there that is better for around the same price. what does thic camera not do well? everyone tells me what the camera is good at but i want to know where it is lacking.
Mike
The D70 has received a tremendous amount of attention on this board and rightly so. At under $1000, it is an attractive way to reduce the cost of rigging out an U/W DSLR camera. If you take some time to sift through the posts, you will see a number of messages from James, Craig, Eric, et. al. describing in great detail the features that the D70 does or does not have when compared to the D100 or the S2. One pro, it has a pretty fast sync speed compared to Fuji's 1/125th. One con, and perhaps this is not a huge one, its most optimal file format is uncompressed NEF files where the D100 and S2 save in the RAW file format which some claim is ideal. I am nowhere near the expert enthusiast compared to many others on the board, so I will not go any further. That being said, this board contains great and tremendously detailed info and you can start with this link comparing the D100 to the D70.
http://wetpixel.com/PNphpBB2-viewtopic-t-5...light-d70.phtml
Hope this helps and have a great day!
Search for "D70" will reveal many threads of comparisons.....or try
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond70/
Karl
One con, and perhaps this is not a huge one, its most optimal file format is uncompressed NEF files where the D100 and S2 save in the RAW file format which some claim is ideal.
A minor correction and clarification:
NEF is the Nikon raw file format. The D70 saves NEF's after compression, while the D100 and S2 users usually don't save compressed NEF. The main reason the D100 and S2 users don't use NEF compression is that the compression of the file is very slow, and this really slows down the camera. On the D70 the onboard processor doing the compression is very much faster, and thus the compressed NEF speed is acceptable.
There is some argument (angels on the heads of pins stuff) about the derisability of the NEF compression algorithm used by the D70, whether it is lossless or not, and whether "visually lossless" is a meaningful term or not. I don't recall off the top of my head, but I think that you have no option to save "uncompressed" NEF with the D70, you have to use compressed, which some people may view as a drawback.
From my perspective, the D70 lacks:
Big bright viewfinder
5 FPS
It is a bit small (I have largish hands)
My ideal dSLR is more in the realm of a 6-8 mpixel D2H...
The Nikon D70 is best compared against the Canon Digital Rebel.
These cameras are very similur and both are great.
For those without Canon or Nikon glass you should consider the differences and determine which features are most important to you. If you already have one system, stick with it and buy the appropriate body.
Canon Drebel has:
ISO 100--lower overall noise
a bit less expensive
Kit lens focuses very close
Better-looking in-camera auto mode pictures
Better availability now of housings/sooner availability of TTL circuitry
ability to use vertical grip (not applicable underwater)
Nikon D70 has:
Nicer look/feel and body handling (subjective but my opinion)
Faster frame rate 3FPS (Ikelite DS125s will keep up at up to half power)
Instant startup
Nikon lens system with more WA options
Better quality kit lens with wider focal length
Smaller raw file size, also ability to take raw + jpg
Faster flash sync speed 1/500 but with non-TTL DSs125s 1/8000
lower visible noise at high ISO
More flexability of exposure control and the ability to get better looking pictures with higher overall detail for those who know the right settings to use and when to use them, and have the postprocessing skills/tools to obtain it.
Slight tendancy toward moire--a concequence of higher overal sharpness
The D100 and S2pro are similur to the D70 in that they all use the same lens system and have the same number of actual megapixels with the same size sensor, but they aren't really in the same class as they cost about 1.5-2x as much and have been out for about two years already.
The D100 has:
Professional metal body build for better ruggedness
Better viewfinder
Only uncompressed raw file type is practical
Slower frame rate
outmoded flash system Nikon has moved on to iTTL
heavier body
ability to use vertical grip (not underwater)
More expensive
The S2pro has:
The only real TTL system without a preflash 
Lowest overall noise ISO-100
Professional quality metal body
Better viewfinder
Also Nikon lens system
Interpolated 12 MP sensor (maybe better quality pictures)
Slower frame rate
Large file size
Funky dual battery system with non-rechargable batteries as one component.
Ability to use vertical grip (not underwater)
Much more expensive
Much bigger housing required (at least with Ikelite)
In a perfect world, I'd go with the S2pro. I wouldn't care about the extra cost, and cost of more memory storage and I would have porters to carry my system around in a giant perlican case. I chose the D70 because I think it gives some distinct advantages with much less cost. But it gives up some advantages too.
You can't go wrong with any one of these cameras and the skill that you use in capturing your pictures vastly outweighs your camera system. I know I have much to learn in that department--which is why I come to this forum.
Faster flash sync speed 1/500 but with non-TTL DSs125s 1/8000
Does it really sync at 1/8000 !? I guess it's possible for an electronic shutter. However, I think the duration for a full dump of the DS125 is around 1/250 based on Jeff's tests, so a shutter faster than that will not get full strobe power. I'm sure Ike will correct me if I'm mistaken.
Does it really sync at 1/8000 !?
In theory, yes, but the flash tube has only just started to discharge in that time frame, so you don't actually "see" most of the light, which is produced after the CCD shuts down.
The D1, 1x, 1h series was able to do this too, they have specifications for 1/500 sync but can go faster when using the PC terminal to trigger the flash.
The D2H can't do this, as it can't do electronic shuttering of the LBCAST sensor. The Canon 1D can, the 1Ds can't... don't know about the 1DMKII, but it probably can.
More flexability of exposure control and the ability to get better looking pictures with higher overall detail for those who know the right settings to use and when to use them, and have the postprocessing skills/tools to obtain it.
I haven't seen this point discussed. Do you have more details?
Does it really sync at 1/8000 !?
In theory, yes, but the flash tube has only just started to discharge in that time frame, so you don't actually "see" most of the light, which is produced after the CCD shuts down.
The D1, 1x, 1h series was able to do this too, they have specifications for 1/500 sync but can go faster when using the PC terminal to trigger the flash.
The D2H can't do this, as it can't do electronic shuttering of the LBCAST sensor. The Canon 1D can, the 1Ds can't... don't know about the 1DMKII, but it probably can.
The CMOS and LBCAST sensors can't do it. It's a feature of the interline CCD design. They paid a price for it though. It reduces the area for charge storage by ~ a factor of 2.
In theory, yes, but the flash tube has only just started to discharge in that time frame, so you don't actually "see" most of the light, which is produced after the CCD shuts down.
You may be right about this. I don't actually know how fast the DS-125 is at what power settings. All I meant to say is that I can select 1/8000 with the flast on and the flash fires. I suppose that flash sync is dependant on both camera and flash. I'd like to know what the answer is.
I guess what can be said is that the camera is not the limiter of flash sync.
UWphotoNewbie wrote:
More flexability of exposure control and the ability to get better looking pictures with higher overall detail for those who know the right settings to use and when to use them, and have the postprocessing skills/tools to obtain it.
I haven't seen this point discussed. Do you have more details?
This is an over-simplified summary of what Phil Askly said in his D70 review. Read the review at dpreview.com to get the proper explanation. What I am primarially thinking about is:
1) Ability to load in camera tone curves that in NEF mode give a better starting point for image manipulation, or in JPG mode can give more control over exposure
2) Higher intrensic sharpness and better detail that is not dependant upon artificial in-camera sharpenning.
3) A more conservative default tone curve that is sometimes mistaken for 1/2 stop underexposure. This is done intentionally to prevent blown highlights. This will save some pictures for those that can compensate by image manipulation in raw, but has the side effect of producing dark looking pictures. This can be undone by loading custom curves that preserve the highlights but brighten the midtones. See http://fotogenetic.dearingfilm.com/downloads.html for a better explanation.
Now all of this implies a lot of experience with digital manipulation. I have my doubts weather much of this is realizable for most people (myself included). I tend to prefer the out of camera images of the Drebel but can appreciate the quantatative improvement that is possible to achieve with the Nikon. I hope to learn how to use this capability and as a camera to grow with the D70 fits the bill.
In theory, yes, but the flash tube has only just started to discharge in that time frame, so you don't actually "see" most of the light, which is produced after the CCD shuts down.
You may be right about this. I don't actually know how fast the DS-125 is at what power settings.
I'll point you to an article by Jeff Farris over at Digital Diver Net, it is a .pdf file that you can get by clicking here.
He found (see page 2 and the more detailed write up on the DS-125) that you start to "lose" light with the DS-125 when the shutter speed is faster than 1/125. Big strobes with big tubes have a slower 'start up' of the tube firing, and the peak light production occurs later than 1/125 of a second after the start of the tube discharge. Smaller strobes (like the DS-50) reach full light output faster, so the exposure effects of very high shutter speeds are less apparent.
This is an over-simplified summary of what Phil Askly said in his D70 review. Read the review at dpreview.com to get the proper explanation. What I am primarially thinking about is:
1) Ability to load in camera tone curves that in NEF mode give a better starting point for image manipulation, or in JPG mode can give more control over exposure
2) Higher intrensic sharpness and better detail that is not dependant upon artificial in-camera sharpenning.
3) A more conservative default tone curve that is sometimes mistaken for 1/2 stop underexposure. This is done intentionally to prevent blown highlights. This will save some pictures for those that can compensate by image manipulation in raw, but has the side effect of producing dark looking pictures. This can be undone by loading custom curves that preserve the highlights but brighten the midtones. See http://fotogenetic.dearingfilm.com/downloads.html for a better explanation.
Now all of this implies a lot of experience with digital manipulation. I have my doubts weather much of this is realizable for most people (myself included). I tend to prefer the out of camera images of the Drebel but can appreciate the quantatative improvement that is possible to achieve with the Nikon. I hope to learn how to use this capability and as a camera to grow with the D70 fits the bill.
There's a bit of controversy regarding point number 1. Nikon advertized lossless compression of raw file but actually applies a tone curve and resample the 12 bit output to around 9.5 bits. Some noticed loss of details in the highlights. See:
http://www.majid.info/mylos/weblog/2004/05/02-1.html
Most of us using DSLR's use raw format for underwater shots. So the camera's processing should not make a difference as long as the image data is preserved. However, having said that. I do remember somebody claimed that Canon applies some sharpenning to even their raw output. I don't remember seeing the conclusion of that discussion.
I'll point you to an article by Jeff Farris over at Digital Diver Net, it is a .pdf file that you can get by clicking here.
Thanks for the article Craig. This is a very well written ant tested comparison. As I read it however, the DS125, Inon 220 and YS90dx all ramp up to full power somewhere between 1/500 s and 1/250 s. For these strobes, the required aperture in the table (for proper exposure) is constant for all shutter speeds up to 1/500. Only the Inon 180 and the DS50 can sync up to 1/500. I assume this is for a full dump.
So it seems that the max flash sync speed is 1/250 with any big strobe limited by the strobe not the camera. I suppose if you are not shooting a full dump you could get away with faster shutter speeds. I'd like to see some testing on this.
I'll adjust my shooting style accordingly--no faster than 1/250 just to be safe. Thanks again.
Nikon advertized lossless compression of raw file but actually applies a tone curve and resample the 12 bit output to around 9.5 bits. Some noticed loss of details in the highlights.
Although not technically what I meant in point 1, this is very relevant and thank you for pointing this out with this well researched article. I had been aware of the debate on dpreview but decided to take Nikon at face value. In fact it is not lossless compression as I had understood. Too bad to find this out but I suppose I shouldn't fret over this too much as I gather the difference is slight. It would have been better to go with a truly lossless compression scheme even if it meant 6+ MB NEF files. Thanks again.
i see that the d70 is compared to the canon rebel but how does it do against the Canon eos 10d.
i see that the d70 is compared to the canon rebel but how does it do against the Canon eos 10d.
I'll say again that the D70 is better compared against the Drebel as the two are in the same class. The 10D is best compared against the D100. The D70 body is around $1000, the Drebel $900 whereas the 10D and D100 go for around $1500 (1.5x the price). Prices vary of course, but the 10D isn't really a good comparison to the D70.
The 10D has all of the features of the Drebel and some of the advantages of the D100:
ISO 100--lower overall noise
Better viewfinder
Professional metal body build for better ruggedness
Better-looking in-camera auto mode pictures
sooner availability of TTL circuitry/Ikelite housing should be available at same time as D70
ability to use vertical grip (not applicable underwater)
Slower frame rate
heavier body
More expensive
Canon lens standard system--less WA choices than Nikon
Not compatible with new Canon digital lenses (like the drebel kit lens this may be an issue in the future if Canon comes out with more digital lenses)
Very nice pics! Now, does anyone understand what any of that says or means?? 
Dave
When it comes down to image quality, chances are the 10D, D-Reb, D100, D70 and Fuji S2 will ALL give great images. What you will need to decide is how much functionality you feel you need and the bucks you're willing to spend.
It's best to remember that it's not the nuts and bolts (or sensors and circuit boards) that make up the image, it's the nut behind the viewfinder!
Stu
Come on Stu, did you REALLY have to be a voice of reason on comparing image quality?????
Seriously, all these cameras produce fantastic images if the photographer using them is competent.
how much does the ikelite d70 housing costs i cant seem to find the price.
mike
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