James/Craig - SLR/N questions

Well, perhaps no one wants a 14n housing, but I know quite a few people that want a Kodak ProSLRn housing...:-)

Cheers

James

Unfortunately the situation is not much different. We know only 10 so far :?

So maybe you can spread the word and push the here

http://www.digideep.com/product.php?pType=...&mID=19&pID=898

Currently it's number 123 and the aggregated wishlist of worlwide most-wanted housings with a share of 0.18%. But thtat's all I can mention here. More details are only for sponsors.

Hope the situation solves for all Kodak/Nikon lovers!

Andi,

I think that this would make an interesting News item for Wetpixel Home page, UWP Magazine etc. "Use Digideep to tell the housing manufacturers what you want!"

I'm happy to help write it. Let me know.

Alex

I take your word :-) Yes, please go ahead I would write if had not to write an exam this friday. I think Peter is already in the final phase of producing the next issue so that would be great. I can provide you with some uncritical graphics like the above. Maybe the following two are also of interest. We can trace that down in more detail to every product listed with us. Showing where people come from who registered. We also have infos on the marketshare of different brands for cameras and for housings derived from the clicks and products owned by our users.

Hi Andi,

That looks cool. I think it's great that you are assembling this informatin. But I don't agree that it should be restricted to paying sponsors only. Certainly, if the information is entered by users it should be accessible to users as well.

But that is just my opinion.

Cheers

James

Hi James,

I do not agree. I think the way we made it in a way everybody is winning! The users get the infos they need. Once a new housing is released they get email. There is no economical value for a user to know if there is strong demand or not to solve his problems. Also the industry has high interest in this information and as you might know from marketing you usually pay a lot for this kind of information.

If we would offer it free of charge nobody would compensate the effort we put in this piece of software. That is why I think it's fair this way. And as you can see, we occasionally might share some of the information for public interest or your articles :wink:

Also I think it's very complementary to what wetpixel does

There is no economical value for a user to know if there is strong demand or not to solve his problems.

What if I'm thinking about purhasing a specific camera that has no known housing for it? As an end-user it does help me quite a bit to know that 1 other person or 500 other people are interested in a housing for the camera I might buy, because that demand drives whether or not the housing manufacturers will produce a housing.

I do understand the rationale of not wanting to provide information for free that industry types would potentially pay for, but I wouldn't discount the value of that info to the consumer.

Tom

I agree with you Tom. Not only do I agree, but I even did what you are proposing. I found out from other underwater photographers if they would purchase a housing for the Kodak, before I went ahead and bought the camera for myself. Naturally, it was a big step for me to sell my beloved Fuji S2pro and housing, in order to upgrade to a camera which has not even been taken underwater yet (that this community knows of), so some reassurance from the community provided the comfort factor I needed to go for it. This kind of open sharing is how our Wetpixel community can help the larger underwater photography community move forward. We shouldn't always leave these product decisions up to housing manufactureres, who do not always know which camera will be "the next big thing." Past history shows this with examples like the Titan for the E10/E20, the Amphibico housing for the Sony F707, etc. In those cases, the manufacturers decided what underwater photographers would want to use - the tail wagging the dog. But I don't think that it worked out very well. Again, that's just my opinion.

I apologize if this sounds "too preachy." As most of you know, I'm for the free and open exchange of information.

Cheers

James

At least our flash system kicks butt

It does? I must have missed the memo. Which one, TTL (SB28), dTTL (SB80DX) or iTTL (SB800)?

Is it better than E-TTL? or E-TTL-II? Ugh! It's all so confusing. :wink:

Anyway, having just returned from the Wetpixel trip, I'm even more convinced that all this equipment talk is meaningless. The following is an honest to God conversation from the trip.

After Eric showed me the 1DMkII and we saw his shots from the first few dives, Debbie says, "Why don't you get a camera like Eric's?".

My reply was, "Why? My photos will look exactly the same as they do now, only the file names will be .CRW instead of .NEF. The only way buying a Canon will make my photos look like Eric's is if I buy Eric's camera and he leaves a full CF card in it."

All said, the Canon 1Ds and MKII are quite impressive. In 90% of the shooting I do, it wouldn't make a bit of difference.

The boy's got talent, real talent. It doesn't come in the box. (I looked again in case I missed it)

I saw great photos from DRebels, 1ds, CP5000, Oly and the D100. There's a big difference between prosumer and dSLR's in the ease of getting good shots, but amongst the various dSLRs, the differences are more nuanced.

We saw Ike, Sea & Sea, Aquatica, Light and Motion and Seacam housings. They are all boxes with buttons and levers. Each has pros and cons, but they all allow you to depress the shutter release button when you want. The only remarkable thing I saw was the Seacam viewfinder. It is a thing of beauty. If I could attach it to my housing, I would buy it in a heart beat. Even if I had a $1000 Ikelite housing, I'd spend the $1800 for the Seacam viewfinder if it were possible.

So, I'm in the camp of ... just buy a camera, housing, strobe(s) and go shoot....

Doesn't make for good board banter though.

Hmmm, the D2X is going kick Canon and Kodak's a**. I can't wait to buy one because then my photos will be much better. Does anyone make a housing for it? I sure xxxxxx's (fill in xxxx's with brand name) will be better than anyone else's housing, don't you think?

Hi James, hi Tom again,...

I appreciate your feedback on this issue and think I have found a solution. I understand that it is important for people to know that little detail you mentioned. Therefore I think we will now implement an additional feature. Once they register we will mailback the current rank no. from the list of most wanted cameras without a housing. Of course we will limit the number of maximum registrations to prevent a complete leech. What do you think about this?

It still think individuals have no big use from the aggregated charts if they are not in the industry. So the rank number should do fine to illustrate if someone is on the right track or not

Hmmm, the D2X is going kick Canon and Kodak's a**.

One thing that really worries me about the D2X is that it will have the same white balance sensor as the D2H. This is on top of the prism, and unless you have a clear housing, I am not sure how this will be able to work. Ike seems to have the market cornered!

Alex

Andi,

My thoughts on the digideep info are that you could offer some of the info for free in your newsletter etc. This would help the photographers who could see which systems seem popular and important this info could help persuade manufacturers which housings to build.

You could then have a more detailed breakdown of the data available for sponsors showing timing and locations of request. Which of course is the more valuable info for marketing etc.

Alex

So, I'm in the camp of ... just buy a camera, housing, strobe(s) and go shoot....  

Or "It's not the equipment, it's the photographer"? Yes, true, in many cases. Which is why a good photographer can still create a great image with crappy eqipment. But, that being said, there are benefits to better gear, for example the 100% VF on the 1Ds/MkII makes it easier to ensure that what you see in the frame is in the frame and things you don't see aren't.

Fact is though, talent is talent, and you can't buy it as you suggested.

Good point, i own the same golf clubs as Ernie Els, but i sure as hell can't play like him!

Sure brand new fancy equipment is nice to have, lots of features, like instant feedback and almost unlimited photos on any given dive are great and digital is the ultimate learning tool.

However, talent is talent and you can't buy a compositional eye

Of course having all the best gear in the world does not make you a good photographer; however, the equipment can limit what you can do.

Berkeley White at Backscatter gave a fantastic show of his recent photos from Komodo at the California Beach Dive Photo Competition dinner. In response to a question afterwards he stated that digital cameras lack the dynamic range to shoot into the sun and he treats his Titan/D100 like a video camera in this respect and avoids pointing it into the sun.

I like sun ball shots, so the sensor dynamic range and flash sync speed was near the top of my priority list when I was shopping. That is a larger part of the reason that I ended up with a DRebel which I think has about a 1.5 stops advantage over the D100 for these shots

( ISO 100 vs IS0 200 and 1/320s vs 1/180s ). I'm sure the Titan/D100 has it's advantages, but it's important to understand what you want.

Great equipment doesn't make a great photographer, but a great photographer appreciates and takes advantage of the difference in quality equipment.

I'm telling you, I saw some nice shots with a drebel in a plastic Ikelite housing with the crappy kit lens. The setup works fine. While we might dream of FF 14 megapixels as the ultimate tool, ultimately it will take a talented pair of hands and eyes to make it markedly superior to other options.

It's just like the pre-digital days. "When should I consider upgrading?" When the system can't get any better shots than you are already getting and the best shots aren't good enough for you any more. Heck, that's why lots of talented Oly x0x0 shooters have gone to DSLRs.

I was kidding about the D2X. I've decided a better camera isn't going to help me. Since you can't buy artistic talent, I'm SOL on that front, too. Photoshop classes!!!! That's where I need to spend my money. Yeah, that's the ticket!

At least our flash system kicks <edit> photographers who actually try to use it's </edit> butt

Is that better? :twisted:

Actually, I've been rather taken by Amos Nachoum's use of the Hasselblad XPan underwater. Now there's something we are unlikely to see in the nikon/canon/Olydak world for a little while.

Wonder where he got the housing... looks like an Aquatica handle...

Actually, I've been rather taken by Amos Nachoum's use of the Hasselblad XPan underwater. Now there's something we are unlikely to see in the nikon/canon/Olydak world for a little while.

Why settle. Get one of these:

http://www.hydroflex.com/site/cameras/imaxdeep.html

Aquatica had one at DEMA last year.

Cheers

James

Of course it's not the tool, it's the photographer that makes the photo.

But if you shoot Canon and you want to get a real fisheye shot, what choice do you have? You have one choice, the 1Ds. (Example only)

So yes, the camera does matter, but like Herb said, it only matters if it can't do what you want it to do because of physical limitations.

Cheers

James

PS: Herb, I think you may have been using slightly different terminology. You chose the Drebel because it has a higher sync/lower ISO than the D100. I think that's different than dynamic range.