A voice of reason among a pandemonium of parrots

I just read this :Use what you got, folks, over on the asylum known as DPreview.

Seek what you NEED, learn how to use it, then take pictures.

All I can say is amen...

Holy crap that was good. I especially like this one:

My sensor goes to 11. Does yours?

ROFL!

Thanks for posting Craig.

Cheers

James

That pretty much says it.......wonder what he would say about choosing housings

Karl

That pretty much says it.......wonder what he would say about choosing housings        

 

Karl

You need nothing more than a ziplock bag.

Ahhhhh,

The voice of reason......Seems like what I've been saying for quite a while......

Stuff like:

* Use what lens(es) you can afford and shoot at apertures where sharpness is best, then CROP and post process to your personal liking....

* Look for mood in photos......Not just technically perfect but boring photos.....

* All housings use o-rings (50 cents?) to keep agua out.....Buy what you like or can afford and spend more time in the sea.....

* Study photography of all types to get inspiration......

* Have fun while shooting and share ideas!

One last thing I can't resist......

My amigo Lazaro Ruda (www.thelivingsea.com) is a proud new Nikon D70 owner. He and I have discussed ad nauseum whether he should house his D70 or just keep ringing all the capability out of his Olympus C5050 cameras....Whether he does or not he's getting great stuff (including moving fish, dolphins, manatees and sharks) with a "shutter lag" camera......Mainly because he spends time in the water and is a great observer and hunter.....His diving skills and taking less crappola' underwater help him approach critters and get shots set up precisely. (I, too subscribe to this theory)

I just love the Thom Hogan post....Proves the image is all important, not what you shot it with.....

YMMV

David Haas

I actually disagree completely with Thom's comments.

I mean, most DPReview posters are not the sharpest knives in the drawer, and would probably have difficulty fully using all the features of a box brownie.

But there's some obvious limitations of today's 6 megapixel FOV crop cameras, which are partially solved by the more expensive fuller framed cameras. Who wouldn't like 1.3 or no FOV crop underwater (1DMk2 or 1Ds). Or better autofocus, or no shutter lag if you're stuck in point-n-shoot hell?

I just looked at my first 'point and shoot' underwater efforts yesterday, and they're allright, but having only ever used a DSLR underwater I didn't know how good I had it! And the picture quality looks good on the web (that's not hard), but is obviously far inferior to the 10D once you thinking of doing a decent size print.

I'm about to be forced to shoot film again (I think I have some lying around somewhere) and I've just been looking at some 6*9 Velvia trannies and remembering how good MF is. 6 megapixels is nothing like this quality (and you're talking about cropping??!) 1Ds is not this quality, either.

I guess the point of my rant (if there is one) is that digital gear still has lots of improving to do, and good gear is important to final image quality. There's nothing wrong with wanting better tools.

Yeah, but mine goes up to 11

Rob,

99% of underwater shooters I know don't fill 1/2 to 2/3 of their frame with ANY subject.....I think that was Thom's point about not just lusting (and buying) the next gizmo as a photographic solution. Practice and get good with these tremendous marvels we have currently.

Full frame cameras and more pixels aren't going to help the majority of folks either.....Plus you have the expense of housing some of the higher end cameras at more cost, too.....

Nothing wrong with wanting "the best" although I'd debate what that is.....A guy fixing his door doesn't need an expensive hammer, just something with a handle and head to hit stuff with

On your film comments I also have hundreds (maybe a couple of thousand?) Velvia, Sensia, Provia and Kodak E100VS slides that look nice.....Problem was sending them in to editors or making decent dupes cost $$$$$ plus the PIB (pain in butt) factor....Digital beats this hands down so there's no going back to film (at least for me)

As far a making prints from Adobe massaged 6 megapixel files I'm not sure whose prints you've seen......Studio shooters I know here in Ohio, plus others who've posted here (Eric hanauer comes to mind) are getting GREAT prints from their 6 megapixel camera files....Up to 24X36....Some even (oh the horror!) from properly exposed Fine/Large JPEG files!!!!!

I'm of a firm belief the preparation for great prints is a little like learning to speak a new language...Lots of nuances that will make a difference but can still be accomplished.

Thom Hogan doesn't post a lot on www.dpreview.com and as you've said there are a lot of complainers on their discussion forums who need to first learn which end of the camera to point....Along with some pretty good shooters, too! I've followed some links to some incredible creative photography.

When Thom does post, it's usually pretty much "on point".

IMHO

David Haas

Lowly 6.3 megapixel shooter

Hi Dave,

Hmm... counterpoint... how many times have you said "I wish this $*&$@ thing would focus!?!" when trying to shoot a 105mm on autofocus? Then, "Dangit, I guess I'll have to switch to manual focus - wait, there's no switch on my housing for that????"

The technology can be improved and we would all be happy.

Or what about that 5050 shot of the fast swimming turtle where you're holding down the button thinking "fire, fire, fire!" Turtle butt baby! I see some room for improvement there too...

But Thom's point is: Is the technology we have good enough for 90% of us? Well...maybe... :-)

Remember - "Mine goes up to 11."

Cheers

James

James,

I've seen Laz and others who have conquered quite a bit of the shutter lag with those simple little 5 megapixel cameras......

As far as AF on even the best DSLR with a 105mm macro yeah, continuously improvement in AF would help....Manual focus? What's that I look around for something about the same distance that's sessile, focus on it and then finalize focus by moving my body in and out inches until it looks good....Then pull the trigger!!!!!! Same as we did 20+ years ago with manual focus macro lenses. But turning a dial/ring/knob ? No way for this boy......I smash my mask up against that viewfinder looking for that little black focus confirmation dot...Also keep an eye on what sensor has achieved focus lock (wide angle shooting only) or put it on the single center point, lock focus and recompose.

Sometime in the not to distant future we'll have cameras the size of the current Canon PRO1 or Nikon 8700 with minimal shutter lag, better sensors for low noise and zoom lense ranges from maybe 24mm-200mm. Plus macro feature built in....Can you imagine what a compact package that would be?

David Haas

But Thom's point is: Is the technology we have good enough for 90% of us? Well...maybe...

Thom's point is fine for DPReview, which contains the bottom 90% of shooters including a large proportion of the bottom 10% of morons. But this is Wetpixel! As the elite top 10% of photographers we're entitled to the best gear. And if we don't have the best gear, we're entitled to want it!

The problem with threads like this is that it COULD BE MISCONSTRUED to mean that it isn't necessary that I spend AU$15,000 on a 1DsMk2. By someone like my girlfriend, who might read this thread. Which would be unfortunate.

So please be careful what you post on a public forum. Too many more threads like this and there will be no more toys for any of us.

Yeah, but mine goes up to 11

I thought it goes up to 14.

I thought that he wrote 11 and not 14 was interesting. While I agree with his "seek what you need" comment, I can't help but think it's a little self serving. He's tired of seeing his customers upgrade to an 1Ds.

Remember - "Mine goes up to 11."  

 

Cheers

James

James, if yours goes up to eleven, then congratulations on joining the Canon fold! I guess you saw the error of your 14 megapixel-leaky housinged-Sigma/Kodak/Vivitar/whatever ways.

Best wishes,

Rob

Ex digital shooter, now a film purist again.

Fuji GSW 690 II Pro, 500 megapixel Multi-Structured Crystal sensor.

Photos taken using batteries are cheating, IMHO.

Yeah, but mine goes up to 11

 

I thought it goes up to 14.

 

I thought that he wrote 11 and not 14 was interesting.

Thom will occasionally make pop-culture or obscure literary references...witness his Vonnegut joke in the Supercoolscan 5000ED review on his website, which is right out there.

I'm pretty sure This is Spinal Tap :shock:

I'm about to be forced to shoot film again (I think I have some lying around somewhere) and I've just been looking at some 6*9 Velvia trannies and remembering how good MF is.  6 megapixels is nothing like this quality (and you're talking about cropping??!)  

No argument on the quality of medium format, and that's why I keep my Pentax 6x7 system, even though I haven't used it for five years now. But the reference to Velvia deserves comment because it seems that, in the US at least, Velvia 50 has been discontinued. That's unfortunate, because the 100F is not nearly the same film. Can we deduce that enough of the Velvia 50 enthusiasts have now gone digital to make an impact on market trends?

Rob,

If you think your girlfriend will give you hell upon realizing the cost of your "toys" wait until she becomes a wife

Just don't bookmark www.wetpixel.com and she won't find out....Or use the BTU explanation.....When asked "what did THAT cost?" I reply only 3 BTUs.....One BTU (basic toy unit) is $1,000.00 Sounds like a LOT less when expressed that way.....

As for Stephen's obervation on Velvia slowly going away I believe more and more shooters are going digital by the day, week, month or whenever another photographer shows them an output from a digital camera system...I believe Stephen said if he had to pick one system currently it would be an EOS 1DS and 17-40mm lens.....(in one of Rodale's columns, I think?) And 5 years of not using a medium format system kind of sounds like it won't get used

If you want to really see some spectacular results the free CD from Canon (obviously promoting their EOS 1DS) has tons of details showcasing some great photographers who've totally abandoned film...(it might still be available for free.)

www.usa.canon.com/eosdigitalworkflowcd

Plus with stuff like Fred Miranda's Digital Velvia, Noise Ninja, PRO JPEG and other tools the film limitations just can't compete anymore.....Especially for hobby shooters.....

Finally, Rob, I'm headed your way to Sydney next Friday....Free day on August 1st, Sunday....In country until August 12th but will be up in Townesville for most of the time...Not sure where you're located in the big land down under

YMMV

David Haas

I'm pretty sure This is Spinal Tap  

That was my take too, although if not for the SLR/n/c, it might have been a subtle dig on everyone going on and on about the 1Ds being the ultimate digital body.

I've got sort of a middle ground view of this topic. I agree that the vast majority of people don't use their equipment to it's fullest, and I put myself in that category. I think Thom's point #2 about being "marketed" applies to many of the people out there looking for the next big thing in cameras.

One thing I would point out though is that while the images that any given photographer can create with a P&S, 1.5/1.6x, 1.3x, or FF camera may ultimately be comparable (with notable exceptions like low light, high ISO, or high speed action), some people upgrade for the other features of the camera bodies.

Which brings me to the point David makes about Laz and others (Herb most notably) being able to create some stunning images with cameras like the 4040 or 5050 Olympus'. Yes, both of these guys do amazing things with the Oly cameras, but I've already seen just from a few postings here that Herb can do even better things with a Digital Rebel, so I'd bet it was worth the upgrade for him. Could he do more with a 1Ds or other FF camera, or something with a faster AF system than the Rebel? Maybe, maybe not, I guess you'd have to ask him.

I guess the point I'm making is that while most of us should and could do more with what we have today in terms of equipment, we shouldn't just dismiss the technological improvements as "marketing", because some of them do indeed improve our photography and the resultant images.

Yes, it's a Spinal Tap joke and one of the most brilliant I've had the privilege to laugh at in some time...

Run what you brung.

Cheers

James

and I've just been looking at some 6*9 Velvia trannies and remembering how good MF is. 6 megapixels is nothing like this quality

Shooting MF underwater is not so easy. If you think MF is good, check out LF. I'm still waiting for an LF housing. One dive=one exposure.

I'm waiting for a FF 100 megapixel camera. I'll just put a 14mm lens on and stick it underwater from the boat and shoot one shot each in all directions. Then I'll just crop to the shot I want. Macro and wide angle from the same image.

ROFL, did you copy that straight from Thom's later posts? Well...almost.

Dang, that's a really good idea though. ;-)

Cheers

James