Sony FE 28-60mm F/4-5.6 plus Nauticam CMC-1

A popular topic surrounding the new Sony FE 28-60 zoom is how it pairs with the Nauticam CMC-1 at 60mm. This lens is quite unique because it is the only full frame lens made that can be used with both the Nauticam CMC-1 and WWL-1/1B commonly reserved for sub full frame cameras. This lens works with all Sony FF cameras and the results are outstanding for a "kit" lens. This lens can focus at up to 30 FPS with Sony's new A1 which makes the AF speed of the lens excellent with all of Sony's latest cameras. 

The images I have attached are both un-cropped with no sharpening applied. The crop is an example of the excellent image quality of this lens at high magnification. Both shot at ISO-200 F/20, 1/160th sec using the Sony A7C camera, FE 28-60 at 60mm, Nauticam CMC-1, Nauticam housing, two Inon Z-330 flashes This is about as close as you can get using AF and slightly larger than 1:1 I would guess 1: 1.1 or 1.2. The lens gives equality good results with the higher res. A1 and A7R IV cameras. 

thanks Phil, useful info.  For non-americans, what is the diameter of the coins in the photo?

The US coin is 24mm and the Mexican coin is 25mm.

@Phil Rudin thanks again for the useful information. I remember reading somewhere one can stack two CMC-1s. In your opinion, what would the magnification be in that case? Thanks again

First image at 60mm no C/U lens, second image at 60mm with CMC-1, third image at 60mm CMC-1 with second CMC-1 stacked. As you can see with two C/U lenses DOF becomes paper thin but the Sergeant Major Fish eggs are larger in the last photo.

Excellent, thanks again

Here is a good read:  Test with the WWL-1 and CMC-1 test by Reefphoto: https://reefphoto.com/blogs/photography/the-sony-a7c-underwater-shooting-full-frame-in-a-half-size-housing

@Phil Rudin Thanks so much for this post. I just realized that this lens is compatible with WWL-1 and potentially a casual macro option. Any idea if the 28-60mm lens also works with the SMC-1?

13 hours ago, nickga69 said:

@Phil Rudin Thanks so much for this post. I just realized that this lens is compatible with WWL-1 and potentially a casual macro option. Any idea if the 28-60mm lens also works with the SMC-1?

It doesn't but works with the CMC-1

Hi Nick, 

waterpixel is actually wrong if I understand his post the 28-60mm works just as well with the SMC-1 as it does with CMC-1 & 2. The difference is that the SMC-1 has a little less magnification than CMC-1 and it is bigger, more expensive and does not stack as well with the CMC-1 as a pair of CMC-1's.

My choice if I was buying for just the 28-60 would be the CMC-1 but if you intend to add the 90mm F/2.8 macro you may want to consider the SMC-1. 

First image CMC-1, second image SMC-1 both at 60mm and focused as close as the lens will focus. 

I learned something new - thank you @Phil Rudin for correcting me! shame i can't edit my post.

@Phil Rudin How does the 90mm macro and the SMC-1 compare to the 28-60mm and the CMC-1 in both working distance, and depth of field? I am in the situation you mentioned above (owning both) and I'm trying to decide between the two.

5 hours ago, Driftc said:

@Phil Rudin How does the 90mm macro and the SMC-1 compare to the 28-60mm and the CMC-1 in both working distance, and depth of field? I am in the situation you mentioned above (owning both) and I'm trying to decide between the two.

The Nauticam port charts have this data:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DH8bnM2e6v3UwtRbK7w5qlgI3m1wLjqR/view

Assume you mean comparing [90mm with SMC-1 ] with [28-60 with CMC-1] ?  That is a bit of apples vs oranges comparison as the magnification with SMC-1 + 90mm is 2.2x while 26-60/CMC-1 is 0.9x. 

A more direct comparison would be 90mm bare vs 28-60/CMC-1.  which has 1.0x and 130mm working distance vs 0.9x and 80mm working distance.  A bare macro lens will win out over a zoom plus wet diopter in terms of flexibility and working distance.  The 90mm can focus all the way from infinity to 1:1 the 28-60 with CMC-1 can only focus between 55 and 80mm working distance - so it has less magnification AND less working distance.

They don't list 28-60 and SMC-1 but the SMC will have slightly less magnification than either CMC-1 or 2 and working distance probably a little less than both at max magnification based or data for the Nikon 60mm which has the data listed for CMC-1/CMC-2 and SMC-1 in the Nikon F port chart.

As far as depth of field goes that will be proportional to magnification as you create more magnification depth of field reduces and it doesn't materially change with how you achieve that magnification. 

@ChrisRoss Thanks for the insights!  I currently have both the 90mm macro and the 28-60mm and I'm considering either purchasing either the CMC-1 or SMC-1 as I don't any diopters now.

From my initial research it does seem like the CMC-1 is compatible with each lens, but not the SMC-1. What I'm trying to figure out is what the difference is between the [28-60+CMC-1] relative to both the [90mm+SMC] and [28-60mm+SMC]. Do you see any advantage to having the [90mm+SMC] over the benefits of the  [28-60+CMC1] and the 90mm w/o a diopter?

Looking at the specs the CMC-1 gets 0.9x with the 28-60 and somewhat less with SMC-1.  The apples to apples comparison is that the 90mm macro gets 1:1 without any diopter - so for a macro dive it's no contest, take the 90mm macro.  Of course you cant swap to a wide angle setup mid dive.

The 90mm with SMC-1 gets 2.2x but only focuses between 45 and 93mm so unless you are shooting head shots of small nudis or similarly small subjects it might be too much magnification.

I should also mention that I am mostly working in freshwater stream environments where switching lenses/ diopters can be done within the same outing (although not easily in some cases due to weather).  My subjects are typically juvenile salmonids, but there are also freshwater mussels, and other macro invertebrates which are great fun with the 90mm macro-- I'm just trying to figure out how to widen the capability of my system.  

It seems that if the SMC-1 can help get the 28-60 closer to 1:1, and if it can extend the 90mm macro capabilities to 2.2 then that would be the best option.... let me know if others have different opinions! 

2 hours ago, Driftc said:

I should also mention that I am mostly working in freshwater stream environments where switching lenses/ diopters can be done within the same outing (although not easily in some cases due to weather).  My subjects are typically juvenile salmonids, but there are also freshwater mussels, and other macro invertebrates which are great fun with the 90mm macro-- I'm just trying to figure out how to widen the capability of my system.  

It seems that if the SMC-1 can help get the 28-60 closer to 1:1, and if it can extend the 90mm macro capabilities to 2.2 then that would be the best option.... let me know if others have different opinions! 

 

You probably know best the size of your subjects, at 2.2x magnification depth of field is razor thin and consequently you need to be absolutely rock steady in your positioning.  DOF decreases from 1.3mm at 1.x to 0.48mm at 2.0x.

You'll also note that the 90mm  lens only focuses between 45 and 93mm from the lens with the SMC-1.  At 45mm working distance, the subject will be a challenge to light.  In addition there is going to be a gap in your magnification between the bare lens at 1:1 and the lens plus SMC-1 at max working distance (93mm).  It's not an easy number to calculate, I would guess magnification would be between 1.4 and 1.8x - but you would need to confirm that.  That would magnification from (1.4-1.8)x to 2.2x

In summary if you are using the 90mm macro and are not shooting at extreme magnification you might be happier with a lower power diopter that gives you more working room and lower maximum magnification.  For example a +5 diopter would give you max magnification of about 1.4x and be overall easier to use.   The +5 diopter would be less useful on 28-60 due to the shorter focal length.

if you haven't seen already this wetpixel live episode is worth a listen

View archived post in: Wetpixel Live: Macro Close Up Lenses

Hi Driftc, 

I think you are correct to say the SMC-1 is the better choice if you intend to house the Sony 90mm macro. I don't believe you have mentioned which camera you are using but the higher the MP's the more likely to see flaws in the lens. I have attached some images to give you an idea what you get with the 90 macro and several C/U lenses. The Coca-cola cap is about 30mm across first at 1:1 and then at 1:1 with the SMC-1. 

The two Jaw fish are at 1:1, the first is full frame and the second is with the Sony A7R IV set to  APS-C. FF is 61MP and APS-C is 26MP.

The Shrimp is at 1:1 with the Aquatica ACU +10 C/U lens. The coral polyp is with the SMC-2 which has little to no DOF and is very hard to light.

While all of the tables and formulas are great information closeup lenses are all but useless if they are not placed very close to the camera lens and even more relevant used to exceed the magnification of the camera lens being used.

It has been my observation both while teaching classes and just looking at images on line that many are adding the closeup lens far before the prime lens has reach its max magnification. Why use a closeup lens with a 1:1 macro lens while the lens is still in the 1:2 range. I have seen many images posted of things like arrow crabs where all of the legs are in the frame and the poster has used a CMC-1 or SMC-1 to take the photo. Arrow crabs are just not that small and you are waisting the value of the expensive macro lens to tate a shot that could have been done at 1:2 or 1:3 with the macro lens. Also no AF macro lens gets all the way to 1:1 using auto focus. If I am going out to shoot with C/U lenses that extend magnification beyond 1:1 (life size) I set the camera to manual focus and the lens to 1:1 before I close the housing. finding the proper subject matter then becomes the issue and w  

hen I find a good subject I find the focus range at 1:1 then add the C/U lens and move the camera forward until I finds proper focus. Because DOF is very shallow as has been repeated several times above, finding sharp focus is just a matter of seeing an image go from very soft until it pops into focus. This takes time in the water to master but it is worth the practice.