Does a full frame makes (even) more sense UW

30 minutes ago, Phil Rudin said:

I would also be interested to know how Isaac is adapting the Nikonos RS 13mm to the Sony FF cameras.

Here’s a quick overview: I separated the front element from the rest of the lens and used it to make a port (like Seacam does), and I mounted the rest of the lens onto the camera body using the Techart Leica to Sony AF adapter (and a Nikon to Leica adapter). I also had to make some gears and a knob for the aperture control. So I end up with autofocus but manual aperture. I'm sure it doesn’t work as well as getting the lens converted to work on DSLRs and using it on a Nikon DSLR, but it’s surprisingly usable. Another interesting thing is that I can use this same approach to attain autofocus with the older Nikonos lenses. One of my next projects will be to do just that with the Sea&Sea 12mm fisheye.

Thanks Isaac, keep me posted on the progress with the Nikonos manual lens mounts. Thanks to all of those who went  a bit off topic to expend the conversation. 

11 hours ago, Tom_Kline said:

@i121, Ya, this is kind of an apples vs oranges thread.

I am curious if anyone has taken the gigantic Oly under water. The housings must be as large as those for the gripped FF cameras.

Don't know. The EM1X is very popular for birds shooters which typically do not overlap with underwater

Nauticam has phased out some housing that were slow moving but this is still being made someone might as well use it

Regarding the Olympus EM1X and Nauticam NA-EM1X housing, Atim Lau has posted several Blackwater photos in the Facebook BW group using a 30mm macro lens, RetraPro strobes with the supercharger and RGBlue system lights. Many of his images are excellent and I see he is also using the 12-45 Pro for larger subjects.

YES, I have held the housing and it is quite large nearing the size of the D6 housing. It reminds me of the Aquatica housings I had for the Nikon F-1 with the motor drive and sport finder.  

50 minutes ago, Phil Rudin said:

Regarding the Olympus EM1X and Nauticam NA-EM1X housing, Atim Lau has posted several Blackwater photos in the Facebook BW group using a 30mm macro lens, RetraPro strobes with the supercharger and RGBlue system lights. Many of his images are excellent and I see he is also using the 12-45 Pro for larger subjects.

YES, I have held the housing and it is quite large nearing the size of the D6 housing. It reminds me of the Aquatica housings I had for the Nikon F-1 with the motor drive and sport finder.  

Housing is 3.27 kg in air so D6 3.8 Kg D500 3.02 Kg so EM1X heavier than APSC DSLR and all the rest of MFT

While the EM1X has impressive build quality all that extra size and two batteries only gives you an ICPA battery rating of 870 frames,

My Sony A7C has a battery rating of 740 with one battery. It also does the same top mechanical speed of of 10 FPS with auto focus and gives you a 24MP 14-bit raw file not the 20MP 12-bit raw of the EM1X. Not sure what Olympus was thinking at a price point of $3000.00.

14 hours ago, Phil Rudin said:

While the EM1X has impressive build quality all that extra size and two batteries only gives you an ICPA battery rating of 870 frames,

My Sony A7C has a battery rating of 740 with one battery. It also does the same top mechanical speed of of 10 FPS with auto focus and gives you a 24MP 14-bit raw file not the 20MP 12-bit raw of the EM1X. Not sure what Olympus was thinking at a price point of $3000.00.

The EM1X does 18 fps CAF in eshutter and 15 in mechanical it has procapture at 60fps that works well for certain animals (not underwater).

That is one of the strength of that camera that is aimed at wildlife enthusiast spending a lot of time outdoors in all sort of conditions. We can argue that Olympus exaggerates their weather sealing benefits but the Sony A7C is just a toy in comparison in that segment.

When it comes to underwater use the EM1X does not really have many benefits compared to anything else on the market I doubt anybody would look at that camera and buy it for an underwater rig

A camera functionally similar to the A7C is the Panasonic S5 that has only a housing from Ikelite. Nauticam said they would not do one. Performance is very much identical but you need to adapt Canon EF lenses if you want fisheye. I have the 8-15mm and worked very well with the S5 but I sold the camera when Nauticam came with the news a housing was not being made

MFT sweet spot is hybrid use still and video, APSC are probably the easiest path for a DSLR user today and full frame has good selection between mirrorless and DSLR for people focussed on stills with specific models mostly Panasonic and to an extent Sony more video focussed

With regards to 14 bits to 12 bits file it mostly affects tonality not colour and may give a smoother gradation but there is a lot you can do with editing this days and many shots are fairly simple with low dynamic range anyway

As Interceptor121 has already said, the EM1X has a completely different target audience compared to the A7C. The A7C has as far as I know only one control dial and that pretty much says it all. Also, it really is not a camera that anyone sane would take underwater and I was surprised when Nauticam announced a housing for it. They must have sold in the low single digits...

In the end, both mu43 and FF have their raison d'être. Alex already pointed it out, but our job as experienced and knowledgable underwater photographers is to guide people to a sensible decision. Both Formats have their strengths and weaknesses. Personally, I believe that unless you know the exact reason for why you need a FF camera (more specific than "I need better Image quality) you should probably not buy one. There are plenty of cases where a smaller rig would probably lead to better results because the photographer behind the camera is out of his depth with the gear he has.

On the other Hand @Tom_Kline has provided plenty of reasons for why a FF DSLR is the superior option for his kind of shooting style. People just need to understand that everyone has their own perspective based on what, where and how they shoot and take that into consideration when making their own choices about gear.

I would say that this thread already showed that a simple FF is better or Mu43 is better just does not cut it.

3 hours ago, hyp said:

The A7C has as far as I know only one control dial and that pretty much says it all.

There is a dial on top and another on the back, same as the A6xxx series APS-C cameras.

8 hours ago, hyp said:

.

On the other Hand @Tom_Kline has provided plenty of reasons for why a FF DSLR is the superior option for his kind of shooting style. People just need to understand that everyone has their own perspective based on what, where and how they shoot and take that into consideration when making their own choices about gear.

 

When I started digital underwater photography I had already over two decades of shooting film under water. I mainly had to learn about the digital part (which alone was quite substantial) and had to gain some practical knowledge of dome ports as I had been using the Nikonos RS for preceding ~decade and thus did not have to worry about it.

A new underwater photographer on the other hand is in a Catch-22 position. It is hard to know what to buy without having any experience. A new underwater photographer needs to set forth goals. What are the photographs going to be used for? What are the conditions (locations, seasons, depths, visibility, etc.) in which the photographs will be taken? What are the specific subjects that will be taken? Will any specialized underwater techniques be required to accomplish ones goals (a Catch-22 question so I a have left it to last)?

3 minutes ago, Tom_Kline said:

A new underwater photographer on the other hand is in a Catch-22 position. It is hard to know what to buy without having any experience.

A really good point, Tom

Comparing my Sony APS-C to my buddy's A7R3 with similar equivalence focal length set up. His full frame camera gives significantly cleaner photos than my APS-C in high ISO conditions like in quarries or cenotes.