Switching from DSLR to more compact camera

3 hours ago, troporobo said:

But since Tim has a ready warned about going off piste I'll not pursue that line of thinking further here.

This is a good point though, Robert. I've had Nikon for 20 years now and have always planned it so that I had u/w Nikon stuff and topside too. Makes traveling slightly easier. I was delighted when the Z series came along and got a Z6: compact (well compared to a D800 or D500) with relatively small lenses and the FTZ adaptor if I travelled with only limited u/w lenses

1 hour ago, TimG said:

This is a good point though, Robert. I've had Nikon for 20 years now and have always planned it so that I had u/w Nikon stuff and topside too. Makes traveling slightly easier. I was delighted when the Z series came along and got a Z6: compact (well compared to a D800 or D500) with relatively small lenses and the FTZ adaptor if I travelled with only limited u/w lenses

I have done the same thing - used the Z6 with the excellent 24-70 kit lens for most of my topside shooting last trip to Hawaii (b4 the pandemic). Had the FTZ in case I wanted to use one my macro lenses (which I did not get around to on this trip).

Found this on Facebook so here courtesy of Seasport Divers' posting there. Well protected against solar radiation and holding the Z6 off Niihau Island (in the background).

13 hours ago, andi_db said:

Thanks for this! Do you also pack arms and floats in there too or that goes into the big luggage? Also wondering did you recently make a switch from DSLR or upgraded within M43? I just recently read that Olympus sold image company and not sure what does that mean for its users in the future.

Float arms etc go in the dive bag.  Yes they've been sold, but realistically what if they do disappear in a few years time?  Your camera won't stop working because they disappear  and there are quite a few Olympus cameras in circulation meaning an incentive for someone to setup for repairs and there'll be plenty of cameras & lenses in circulation probably at bargain prices on the second hand market you can use Panasonic lenses on them as well and use the lenses on Panasonic cameras.  If everyone decides to sit on their hands and not buy it kind of makes it a fait-accompli.   In essence you can choose Olympus now and if they folded, you could switch to Panasonic on your next upgrade and keep using ports and lenses. 

I never had DSLR underwater, I have a full Canon DSLR system for topside usage, but have now purchased a few topside Olympus lenses for travel.  With Aluminium housings I found I could buy the housing and the camera plus a lens or two for the price of a DSLR housing alone.

11 hours ago, TimG said:

But the one area that, maybe, I do think about with DX is macro. Sometimes some serious cropping is necessary and then I feel I miss the extra pixels provided by FF/FX. In reality I'm sure I don't REALLY need them but the thought lingers.

 

 

The right variable to consider is pixel size.  If you have the same lens on DX and FX and you need to crop then the DX often has smaller pixels than the full frame so is more croppable (in theory - in practice it depends on how good the pixels are and if you are getting into diffraction etc).  Of course with the advent of the 60 add MP full frame cameras this changes things a little and it depends on which full frame and which cropped sensor camera you are considering.

On 1/6/2022 at 2:31 PM, Barmaglot said:

If you're looking to downsize but stay with Nikon interchangeable lenses, perhaps look at Z50 with 16-50mm and WWL-C? This will get you a reasonably compact rig, and you can use F-mount lenses via FTZ adapter.

The Nikon Z50 is quite nice but you add a Nauticam case which is alone 1kg more and 2x the expense vs. OM10mkIV.  Lenses are either super heavy or very little choice.  No fisheyes.  The smaller DX lens is a quality lens? Adding a wwl-c is heavy and expensive.  Other lenses are super big and heavy.  Frankly the system currently seems good for the surface not for underwater.  Unfortunately if you are trying to drastically make the system more compact there are very few choices out there....The only practical gain to go mirrorless DX or FX UW is very marginal IQ  improvement in FX ambient and using the better heavier lenses.  

I tried to improve on M43 a year ago but could not find an equivalent or better choice for UW use and easier traveling.

1 hour ago, nudibranco said:

The Nikon Z50 is quite nice but you add a Nauticam case which is alone 1kg more and 2x the expense vs. OM10mkIV

The small ports needed to use WWL-C and macro lenses versus big domes make up the difference in cost and size.

1 hour ago, nudibranco said:

Lenses are either super heavy or very little choice.  No fisheyes. 

Z50 has access to most F-mount lenses via FTZ adapter, and the OP is specifically looking to share lenses with her husband who is using a D500.

1 hour ago, nudibranco said:

Adding a wwl-c is heavy and expensive. 

Being made for compact cameras to begin with, it's really not that big.

 

I used an Olympus M43 system that for several years and enjoyed it and got some really nice images with it,  but sometimes felt frustrated by slightly slow focusing speed in poor light and a limited ability to crop without excessive image degradation.  Although I could fit almost everything into a ThinkTank roller (I have always carried camera, lenses and a few other bits in a carry-on shoulder bag), I was encountering situations in which I could not count on getting the roller in the cabin, so I bought a Pelican case that could be safely checked if necessary.  Once I came to terms with the idea of checking my gear, I began to feel that a larger system would not be much more trouble to transport especially after I added a WWL to the M43 stuff.   

I did a lot of research and spoke to a lot of people.  I was about to go with Nikon full frame but everything is larger for full frame, especially dome ports.  With M43 and APS-C, I can use a 100mm or 140 dome and only  occasionally take a 180 dome.  That would be impossible with full frame.  A 230mm dome is pretty much required for full frame WA.  I am unwilling to deal with the logistics of traveling with that.  I looked very seriously at the WACP, but a 4 kg lens has its own transport issues, and I am uncomfortable putting a heavy, multi-element, $5000 lens into luggage.  I also added up the weight of the camera, housing, lens, strobes, arms and WACP and at something like 11 kg, realized carrying that thing to and from the boat each day would be unpleasant and having boat crews hand down the rig and take it from me at the end of the dive would make me rather unpopular with the crew. 

So I went with a D500.  For me, APS-C is the sweet spot.  The format seems to be dying out, but I hope my D500 bodies will last a long time, and hopefully someone will continue to offer crop sensor cameras.

I kept most of my M43 stuff, thinking I would use it sometimes when I needed a smaller kit for travel, but it just sits, and I think it is time to sell it off.

56 minutes ago, Draq said:

So I went with a D500.  For me, APS-C is the sweet spot.

I'm with Draq.

So much of what he writes about FF, I've been there and when it came time to think about moving on from the D800, I was persuaded that APS-C and the D500 was the way to go. I've never regretted that. A sweet spot indeed.

On 1/7/2022 at 9:19 PM, TimG said:

This is a good point though, Robert. I've had Nikon for 20 years now and have always planned it so that I had u/w Nikon stuff and topside too. Makes traveling slightly easier. I was delighted when the Z series came along and got a Z6: compact (well compared to a D800 or D500) with relatively small lenses and the FTZ adaptor if I travelled with only limited u/w lenses

Would you recommend Z6/z7 for underwater?

8 hours ago, andi_db said:

Would you recommend Z6/z7 for underwater?

Many housings for the Z6/Z7 are the same size as the full frame cameras and you will still have full frame sized domes.  I know an UW photographer that went from a D800 in a Seacam housing to a Z6 in an Isotta.  The main reason for picking the housing was to get a smaller lighter rig.  The other housing options were as bulky as the D800 Seacam.  They are very happy with the switch - they mostly shoot macro.   Whether it is overall more compact depends on domes/lenses you use. 

The biggest issue in terms of weight/bulk with any full frame camera is wide angle port size.

There is no "magic bullet" that I know of that allows the use of smaller (and hence lighter and less expensive) ports and get acceptable optical performance with any full frame camera. This is true of both SLR and mirrorless (the physics is the same!)

The only way to use smaller ports is to either use a smaller sensor or to accept less than optimum optical performance. 

I must confess to lacking recent knowledge of the Z9 etc, but the autofocus performance on the Z6/Z7 is significantly poorer than that of the D500/D850.

So you end up without any significant size/weight advantage and AF performance that is significantly inferior...doesn't sound like a great idea to me!

On 1/21/2022 at 12:18 PM, adamhanlon said:

The biggest issue in terms of weight/bulk with any full frame camera is wide angle port size.

Yeah, I guess "light weight" and "full frame" don't go into the same sentence.  

9 minutes ago, andi_db said:

Yeah, I guess "light weight" and "full frame" don't go into the same sentence.  

Ain't that the truth!

Frankly APS-C hardly does any better either; nor mirrorless.......

It's the Nature of the Beast: u/w photography: expensive, heavy, challenging... but so, so compelling 

 

5 minutes ago, TimG said:

Frankly APS-C hardly does any better either; nor mirrorless.......

Yes, it's an expensive sport...I also see that they have discontinued D500! What's next in the store to replace that!? My husband has one, it's a great mid size camera, not as small as m43 but not as huge as full frame.

I found this article:

"It’s been six years since Nikon released the Nikon D500. The camera that will likely be their last “pro” model APS-C DSLR. It was just over six years between the releases of the D500 and its predecessor, too. We’re still waiting on a mirrorless equivalent to the Nikon D500, but it appears that Nikon might have killed it off before announcing a replacement in its new mirrorless lineup.

Retailers around the world are listing the Nikon D500 as discontinued or out of stock with no hints of getting more. Even Nikon Asia’s shifted the D500 over to the discontinued list. Could that mean a mirrorless equivalent is on the way? Well, maybe. But knowing Nikon, it’s entirely possible that we might never see a true “pro” level APS-C mirrorless camera. But right now, it seems that the D500 is done."

(ps. I loved visiting St. Maarten everyday when I was teaching diving on cruise ships, maybe our paths have crossed before)

Oh wow, really sorry to read about the D500 being discontinued. I hadn't seen that. I've had mine since about 2017 and just love it. I find it an excellent balance of IQ, size and cost.

1 hour ago, andi_db said:

(ps. I loved visiting St. Maarten everyday when I was teaching diving on cruise ships, maybe our paths have crossed before)

Glad you enjoyed St Maarten. It's sure a fun place to live and the diving, especially in these COVID times, is great!

Only M43 is truly more compact.

Camera, case (190x100 cm) and port (only 3.5" that I can use for other lenses as well) less than 2kg

2 sets of Strobos (Retra) and arms with floats 5kg

2 extra lenses and port extender for macro lens 400g

Camera base (ultralight) and camera charger 300g

With about 8kg I can carry everything.

The port works with excellent quality with the 8mm fisheye (and can focus down to the port for CFWA), and macro (either 60mm or 30mm lenses).  Quality is as good as best APS-C. 

It also works well for 14-42mm or 12-32mm  but hardly use it in mediterranean waters.

The 8mm with the 3.5" is truly amazing and favorite combo.  Super sharp edge to edge and with some cropping I can do some larger nudibranch.  I print through A2 size and cannot complain!

14 hours ago, nudibranco said:

The 8mm with the 3.5" is truly amazing and favorite combo. 

Great! Thanks for this, very valuable info! How many dives can you pull off on one battery charge. I was interested in OMD em5iii camera and seems like people here were also complaining on only managing 2 dives on one charge. Plus those with Nauticam having to go through more trouble to replace the battery vs. Isoota version which is simpler. 

On 1/6/2022 at 2:31 PM, Barmaglot said:

If you're looking to downsize but stay with Nikon interchangeable lenses, perhaps look at Z50 with 16-50mm and WWL-C? This will get you a reasonably compact rig, and you can use F-mount lenses via FTZ adapter.

I'm a bit late to the party here, but given your preference for Nikon this is exactly the recommendation I was was going to suggest. I haven't tried it myself but I've noted that it looks very compact for the technical ability it provides. 

Additionally, since the WWL-C is a wetlens, you should be able to swap it for a macro wetlens and be able to use both on the same dive. 

On Z6/Z7 vs eg D850 size for underwater use: of course this will depend on the brand, but I bought my Sea&Sea Z6/Z7 housing used from a guy who also had the Sea&Sea housing for the D850 and I could compare them beside each other on the table.

Yes I know that looking at size charts there is no big difference, and I also know that size of ports and strobes do not change. I maintain, however, that in practice the perceived bulk of the mirrorless housing was notably smaller than the DSLR housing. Not a night-and-day difference, and what's "notably smaller" for me may be dismissed as insignificant for someone else. For me personally though, the mirrorless housing is easier to travel with than the DSLR housing would have been. I would have noticed the difference when packing in the bag I use for uw photo gear.

Great! Thanks for this, very valuable info! How many dives can you pull off on one battery charge. I was interested in OMD em5iii camera and seems like people here were also complaining on only managing 2 dives on one charge. Plus those with Nauticam having to go through more trouble to replace the battery vs. Isoota version which is simpler. 

I do not know about the em5iii but the Pana GX9 I used is rated less than the Olympus and have no problems. I do about 150 or 200 pics. If you plan on compact i would lean on em10mkIV. Same quality but more compact with its included flash especially in a nauticam case if you choose that one. Basically same form factor as my GX9. The viewfinder on the em10mk4 should also be a lot better than my GX9.

Andrea

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