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Hi everyone,
I recently got a 105mm lens for my Nikon D850. I already have a +15 diopter that I use with my 60 mm lens. I tried the +15 on the 105mm and it is rather difficult to focus. I would be interested to hear recommendations for a good quality glass +5 or + 10. This is for photographing small critters, 1 inch or less.
Thank you!
I'll assume you mean a wet contact diopter. The Nauticam ones are good, I've used the SMC 1 (+5 I think, 2.3x) and it works well with the optional flip mount so you can quickly add and remove it. They also have the SMC 2 (+10, 4x). They attach to their macro ports and you can get adapters for different thread diameters. They are expensive but definitely work well.
Jon B
3 hours ago, rinjani said:I'll assume you mean a wet contact diopter. The Nauticam ones are good, I've used the SMC 1 (+5 I think, 2.3x) and it works well with the optional flip mount so you can quickly add and remove it. They also have the SMC 2 (+10, 4x). They attach to their macro ports and you can get adapters for different thread diameters. They are expensive but definitely work well.
Jon B
The Nauticam lenses are very good, though they are quite powerful I have seen reports that it is in the +10 to +15 range of power. So you won't reduce magnification a great deal with the SMC-1. The high magnification is what makes focus difficult with these lenses - at 2.3x magnification depth of field is razor thin and you need to be really steady as any back and forth movement changes focus point quite dramatically.
The 105mm lens already has 1:1 magnification so the frame is 36mm across, adding an SMC-1 will have a frame 14.4mm across at maximum magnification. Working distance is between 53 and 95mm .
Reefnet indicates that a 105mm lens will have a frame 16mm wide (2.2x) with a +10 and 24mm wide with a +5. Their Subsee diopters were quite popular and I know a few photographers using them. INON also have a good range of lenses with +15/+11/+6 lenses available.
This wetpixel live episode discusses choice of closeup lenses and mentions having a low powered lens available is probably most useful:
View archived post in: Wetpixel Live: Macro Close Up Lenses
Yeah, Chris is correct about the SMC 2 being a bit stronger than 10, at 4x magnification it is a +12 (calculating (12/4) + 1 = 4). But the SMC 1 is (assuming it's really a 2.3x) just over +5 diopters . A +5 diopter is a 2.25x magnification (5/4+1 = 2.25).
The Wetpixel Live discussion mentioned by @ChrisRoss is a good place to see more.
Jon
1 hour ago, rinjani said:
Yeah, Chris is correct about the SMC 2 being a bit stronger than 10, at 4x magnification it is a +12 (calculating (12/4) + 1 = 4). But the SMC 1 is (assuming it's really a 2.3x) just over +5 diopters . A +5 diopter is a 2.25x magnification (5/4+1 = 2.25).
The Wetpixel Live discussion mentioned by @ChrisRoss is a good place to see more.
Jon
Thanks Jon, though this does not seem to fit with what they are saying in the wetpixel live episode - they note that the INON UCL-90 and the SMC-1 are similar magnification and INON list the UCL-90 as a +11. Also I tried a few different on line calculators and they all indicate a +5 gives around 1.7x or so magnification. It does depend on what focal length you assume for the 105mm lens - it is obviously focus breathing as it focuses closer and the focal length at min focus is actually a 78.5 mm lens. If you use a macro calculator it seems it is 78.5 mm lens and has around 12mm of extension as well to achieve 1:1 at its stated min focus distance of 314mm.
In any case if we take the video at its word, the SMC-1 and UCL-90 are similar, however Alex says his most used lens is in fact a +5 diopter with lower power than the SMC-1 and examples of that would include the Subsee +5 and INON UCL-167. For the OP I would suggest looking at lenses from this class initially and work with them and practice until you find you are wanting more power, they should be easier to focus. The INON UCL-90 is reported to have a little more working distance than standard diopters
Thanks so much Chris for this and pointing the video and the other thread.
Alex and I were discussing "rules of thumb" rather than optical specifics. I would equate SMC-1 and UCL-90 as being similar in terms of magnification, perhaps mostly in terms of the types of subject that they work best on. Think in terms of filling the frame with the head of a Nembrotha sized nudibranch
The Nauticam SMC-2 and Inon UCL-67 also seem to share a similar range of subjects. Think in terms of filling the frame with a rhinophore of said nudibranch.
In all cases, it is true to say that getting them to focus requires specific technique. Your camera's autofocus will not cope. Broadly speaking, the technique is to rack the lens in to its closest focus point and then physically rock in and out until you achieve acceptable focus in the viewfinder. The higher the magnification, the more difficult this is!
As an aside, using a +15 (although this number varies depending on who is stating it!) with a 60mm lens is not optimal. Others can do the maths (!) but I suspect that this will effectively move the minimum focus point distance to inside the lens!
14 minutes ago, adamhanlon said:In all cases, it is true to say that getting them to focus requires specific technique. Your camera's autofocus will not cope. Broadly speaking, the technique is to rack the lens in to its closes focus point and then physically rock in and out until you achieve acceptable focus in the viewfinder.
I'm honestly quite surprised by this claim. Not to dispute your experience, which is far greater than mine, but I occasionally use a Weefine WFL05S (+13) with a Sony 90mm macro lens on my Sony A6300, and autofocus is definitely able to cope with it. Yes, it takes a few seconds, and usually a few attempts, but it does get there. The working distance is annoyingly short, but after some time, I got pretty used to just putting the lens in approximately the right position, half-pressing the shutter, then just waiting for the picture to appear in focus on the LCD. Using manual focus and moving the camera is not really an option for me, because my housing does not have enough room to fit a focus gear to this lens, but autofocus has worked well enough for me to shoot stuff like sheep nudis, squat shrimp, anemonefish eggs, etc.
To stress, I don't use manual focus...just rack in the lens using AF and then rock in and out.
I think our technique difference may revolve around the relative magnification being claimed by different manufacturers. I haven't used the Weefine lens, but I suspect that if AF is able to cope with it, it is probably not that strong!
With my D500 (cropped sensor like your a6300), I can get similar subjects to those you list with a CMC-1 and a 60mm lens. As per your experience, I can use AF happily with this combination...I must confess that I really like this combination (and actually prefer it to my full frame options for macro.)
46 minutes ago, adamhanlon said:Alex and I were discussing "rules of thumb" rather than optical specifics. I would equate SMC-1 and UCL-90 as being similar in terms of magnification, perhaps mostly in terms of the types of subject that they work best on. Think in terms of filing the frame with the head of a Nembrotha sized nudibranch
As an aside, using a +15 (although this number varies depending on who is stating it!) with a 60mm lens is not optimal. Others can do the maths (!) but I suspect that this will effectively move the minimum focus point distance to inside the lens!
I was quoting this mainly to demonstrate that the SMC-1 was not a +5 diopter strength and suggesting that a +5 might be a better starting point to practice with on a 105mm lens than leaping straight to an SMC-1.
You are quite correct on a 60mm macro as the working distance from front element at 1:1 is only 50mm, probably 40-45mm from the port glass. It will probably focus at the lenses' infinity focus. For example the Nauticam port chart indicates the working distance for the SMC-1 is 1 - 92mm and at 1mm working distance the magnification is only 1.1x so pretty pointless as you can get 1x at 50mm with the bare lens. A +15 diopter will be even worse.
14 minutes ago, adamhanlon said:With my D500 (cropped sensor like your a6300), I can get similar subjects to those you list with a CMC-1 and a 60mm lens. As per your experience, I can use AF happily with this combination...I must confess that I really like this combination (and actually prefer it to my full frame options for macro.)
AFAIK CMC-1 is a stronger diopter than SMC-1; Nauticam doesn't list it, but I've seen sites rate it at +15, compared to SMC-1's +13 (and, if I remember correctly, SMC-2 is a +25).
WFL05S is rated at +13, which puts it in the same ballpark as SMC-1, and it takes the working distance of SEL90M28G from ~12cm from the front element to about 2-3cm from the diopter's front element, with frame width going from ~23mm to ~10-12mm, so about 2x magnification.
One thing I should note though, is that a focus light is absolutely critical for its use. Without a focus light, there is not a prayer of autofocus locking on, regardless of ambient conditions.
For what it's worth, after owning the Weefine WFL05S diopter for over two years, I finally did a proper test on it. I put the 90mm lens on my camera, set it to manual focus, cranked it to minimum distance, put it in the housing and sealed it, put a strobe on the cold shoe, then jumped in the pool with it and my pointer stick that has 10cm worth of ruler markigs on it. Moving the camera in until the picture came into focus, I got this through bare port:
23mm across, which is what a macro lens should give on an APS-C camera.
Then I slapped on the diopter, using M67 magnetic rings as a quick-connect interface (it has a protruding rear element, so it sits flush against the port glass) and again, moved the camera in until something came into focus:
10mm across, so it delivers 2.3x magnification. Nauticam's port chart actually gives 2.1x max magnification for SMC-1 on Sony 90mm, so I guess that the sites that list SMC-1 as a +13 are not completely accurate.
8 hours ago, Barmaglot said:For what it's worth, after owning the Weefine WFL05S diopter for over two years, I finally did a proper test on it. I put the 90mm lens on my camera, set it to manual focus, cranked it to minimum distance, put it in the housing and sealed it, put a strobe on the cold shoe, then jumped in the pool with it and my pointer stick that has 10cm worth of ruler markigs on it. Moving the camera in until the picture came into focus, I got this through bare port:
23mm across, which is what a macro lens should give on an APS-C camera.
Then I slapped on the diopter, using M67 magnetic rings as a quick-connect interface (it has a protruding rear element, so it sits flush against the port glass) and again, moved the camera in until something came into focus:
10mm across, so it delivers 2.3x magnification. Nauticam's port chart actually gives 2.1x max magnification for SMC-1 on Sony 90mm, so I guess that the sites that list SMC-1 as a +13 are not completely accurate.
Thanks for posting this. Interesting that on the N85 port chart they list SMC-1 magnification as 2.1x and on N100 port it's listed as 2.2x. One explanation might be that they used AF which on some cameras doesn't give as much magnification as MF?
There's a couple of places where the the port charts list both the CMC-1 and SMC-1, one being the 60mm macro lens on Nikon f-mount. This has the the SMC 1 delivering 1.1x on the 60mm with 1-92mm working distance, while the CMC-1 delivers 1.4x with 4 - 73mm working distance. So the CMC-1 is clearly a stronger lens than the SMC-1
Just now, ChrisRoss said:There's a couple of places where the the port charts list both the CMC-1 and SMC-1, one being the 60mm macro lens on Nikon f-mount. This has the the SMC 1 delivering 1.1x on the 60mm with 1-92mm working distance, while the CMC-1 delivers 1.4x with 4 - 73mm working distance. So the CMC-1 is clearly a stronger lens than the SMC-1
If you look at the Canon R port chart, you will see all four of their diopters listed with the 100mm RF macro lens:
Interesting that in this case, even the weaker CMC-2 is delivering higher magnification than SMC-1, but perhaps this is a special case, since 100mm RF is capable of 1.4x on its own.
Not really the CMC-2 is a little stronger than the SMC-1 it gets 1.2x on on the nikon 60mm macro. It's not surprising that the CMC series are stronger lenses as they are designed for shorter focal length kit lenses and the lenses on 1"compacts. Diopters are less effective on shorter focal lengths. A CMC-1 only gets 0,8x on a 14-42 m43 kit lens for example.
1 hour ago, ChrisRoss said:Not really the CMC-2 is a little stronger than the SMC-1 it gets 1.2x on on the nikon 60mm macro.
I meant weaker in comparison to CMC-1. This page, for example, lists CMC-2 as +10, SMC-1 as +13 and CMC-1 as +15, but that is probably not the case.
8 minutes ago, Barmaglot said:I meant weaker in comparison to CMC-1. This page, for example, lists CMC-2 as +10, SMC-1 as +13 and CMC-1 as +15, but that is probably not the case.
Certainly does not seem to be the case I have seen other pages refer to the SMC-1 as a +10
I use Nikkor AF 105mm with a D500. I normally don’t use manual focus.
I have to say that I find the Nauticam SMC-1 hard to use.
When diving with the 105mm, I always take 2 close-up lenses, the Inon UCL-165 + (most probably) the Inon UCL-90.
I really recommend the Inon UCL-165, is very easy to use.
I think that the SMC-1 has more magnification than the UCL-90. At least, I have less auto focus issue with the UCL-90.
Kind regards,
Joss
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