Which strobe for FF system?

We have successfully managed to destroy our second last Sea&Sea YS-D2 strobe and are left with three Z-330s and one YS-D2 (two UW-photographers in family). The original plan was to replace a YS-D2, in case of failure, with a Z-330 (so that we have 2x two Z-330 for the rigs) and to use the remaining YS-D2 as an external strobe. This is not possible now, because of the discontinued Z-330. Also the YS-D3 II, which would be in a similar nice as the Z-330, is, because of the bad experience with YS-D2 (four flashes died since 2017), out of discussion...

 Since I could not find a dealer who has some remaining Z-330 in stock (we are very satisfied with the Z-330 strobes), I fear I have to look for another, available model. I should also say that I plan to acquire a FF camera in the near future (Sony A7RV) and therefore a strong strobe model may be a good idea. From the data available in the Internet, I have compiled a table, for comparison of different models (corrections/additions welcome; did I overlook an important one?). Money is a factor, but not the most important one, quality and durability are rated higher. Also the GN is not very important, as this is measured under too many differing conditions (interestingly the weakest strobes have the highest GNs ):

From this comparison (and what I read here in this forum), I tend towards the Retra Pro X flash (output, color temp, o.k., HSS, but recycle time long, in comparison), but also the Seacam 160 (similar properties as Retra, but as far as I understand the accus are in the flasharms (=expensive to replace when accus have reached end of lifetime)) or the Ikelite DS230 (relatively strong and quick to recycle, but no HSS and optical triggering complicated) look attractive. The Isotta Red 64 may also be interesting, but it seems it does not exist yet...

What is Your valued opinion?

Thanks, Wolfgang

If your primary worry about Retra is recycle time, then just get the superchargers. I shoot a pair of Retra Pros (non-X) with superchargers and couldn't be happier with them.

Seacam 160D use internal batteries, albeit proprietary ones. The battery arm solution is Subtronic.

I don't know about Scubalamp D-Pro, but their earlier D-MAX performed significantly below advertised specs.

You should add size and weight to the table, many on your list are twice the size and weight of the Z-330.  I always thought the Retra had a 130° beam - can't find the spec on the website anymore.

I used many strobes and have been very happy with INON both small and larger ones up to Z220.   

Also had Sea&Sea and Olympus ones.

Two years ago I went to the Retra Pro.  Great opportunity with HSS and great quality of light.   However they are very picky about batteries and without superchargers and 16 eneloop Pros you will barely make 2 dives.  So keep that in mind.  Not many other choices with compact sizes and enough quality power for WA.

Andrea

I know everyone will probably recommend the strobes they own, but I'm really happy with my Retras with the superchargers. Plenty of coverage and great light on a Sony A1 with the WWL-1. Much better than my old Sea and Sea YS-D1's

Mike

I recommend people use crappy strobes . For years I have enjoyed superior lighting to other photographers and it has been very annoying that now so many photographers have Retras, I have lost this advantage. And I am not joking. I have said many times that my photography career owes much to Sea & Sea and their marketing .

So don’t spend money on good light. When has light ever been important in photography.

2 minutes ago, Alex_Mustard said:

I recommend people use crappy strobes . For years I have enjoyed superior lighting to other photographers and it has been very annoying that now so many photographers have Retras, I have lost this advantage. And I am not joking. I have said many times that my photography career owes much to Sea & Sea and their marketing .

So don’t spend money on good light. When has light ever been important in photography.

An excellent business model 

Or just wait a few months and see what Inon has planned in terms of Z-330 successor

29 minutes ago, makar0n said:

Or just wait a few months and see what Inon has planned in terms of Z-330 successor

This is the problem: we have 2x Z-330 for one rig now and the other one with Z-330 and YS-D2. Would be nice to have a pair of matching strobes, we dive all year and would like to have the strobes now. My local dealer (Roland from Panocean) says he awaits the new Inon model at the earliest this autumn. And who knows whether and how well the new model will work together with Z-330 (I guess we have to purchase a pair, as with the other strobes in consideration)?

Wolfgang

1 hour ago, Architeuthis said:

This is the problem: we have 2x Z-330 for one rig now and the other one with Z-330 and YS-D2. Would be nice to have a pair of matching strobes, we dive all year and would like to have the strobes now. My local dealer (Roland from Panocean) says he awaits the new Inon model at the earliest this autumn. And who knows whether and how well the new model will work together with Z-330 (I guess we have to purchase a pair, as with the other strobes in consideration)?

 

Wolfgang

Convert your wife to shoot video. Then you have 3x Z330 and she needs to buy herself video lights. Problem solved

3 hours ago, ChrisRoss said:

You should add size and weight to the table, many on your list are twice the size and weight of the Z-330.  I always thought the Retra had a 130° beam - can't find the spec on the website anymore.

I also did not find the angle of beam on the Retra Homepage. Here on this Backscatter review it is said "The beam angle is 110 degrees and can be expanded up to 130 degrees when shooting with the wide angle diffuser.", but this is the Retra Pro model and now they have the "Pro X" model. Confusing...

https://www.backscatter.com/reviews/post/Retra-Flash-Underwater-Strobe-Test-and-Review

There have been a number of Z330s for sale in the Classifieds. Grab one?

6 hours ago, Architeuthis said:

Seacam 160 (similar properties as Retra, but as far as I understand the accus are in the flasharms

The Seacam 160s have batteries in a battery compartments on the strobes, like the Retras/Inons etc. However it is a proprietary battery pack, not AA, so it is more expensive to replace.

Upside is that battery packs are more efficient, and are super convenient!

Light quality is very good, and there is plenty of power for full frame wide angle scenics!

7 hours ago, Architeuthis said:

We have successfully managed to destroy our second last Sea&Sea YS-D2 strobe and are left with three Z-330s and one YS-D2 (two UW-photographers in family). The original plan was to replace a YS-D2, in case of failure, with a Z-330 (so that we have 2x two Z-330 for the rigs) and to use the remaining YS-D2 as an external strobe. This is not possible now, because of the discontinued Z-330. Also the YS-D3 II, which would be in a similar nice as the Z-330, is, because of the bad experience with YS-D2 (four flashes died since 2017), out of discussion...

 Since I could not find a dealer who has some remaining Z-330 in stock (we are very satisfied with the Z-330 strobes), I fear I have to look for another, available model. I should also say that I plan to acquire a FF camera in the near future (Sony A7RV) and therefore a strong strobe model may be a good idea. From the data available in the Internet, I have compiled a table, for comparison of different models (corrections/additions welcome; did I overlook an important one?). Money is a factor, but not the most important one, quality and durability are rated higher. Also the GN is not very important, as this is measured under too many differing conditions (interestingly the weakest strobes have the highest GNs ):

From this comparison (and what I read here in this forum), I tend towards the Retra Pro X flash (output, color temp, o.k., HSS, but recycle time long, in comparison), but also the Seacam 160 (similar properties as Retra, but as far as I understand the accus are in the flasharms (=expensive to replace when accus have reached end of lifetime)) or the Ikelite DS230 (relatively strong and quick to recycle, but no HSS and optical triggering complicated) look attractive. The Isotta Red 64 may also be interesting, but it seems it does not exist yet...

What is Your valued opinion?

 

Thanks, Wolfgang

I still have my two Sea and Sea YS-D2. It has been a few years I am sure eventually they will fail but I like the light they produce very much. 

In Italy I have seen a few OneUW I have to say they look impressive if not a bit bulky. The quality of light seems very good

Retra Pro X area also very popular light quality seems very good too but to be honest so are seacam that are very similar to OneUW

The thing with the Japanese strobes at the bottom of your table is that they are substantially lighter of the other strobes

I am not a fan of the dome shape of the Z330 though and I do not see the YS-D3 as a step forward the light looks cooler so I would not consider those last two

6 hours ago, Architeuthis said:

I also did not find the angle of beam on the Retra Homepage. Here on this Backscatter review it is said "The beam angle is 110 degrees and can be expanded up to 130 degrees when shooting with the wide angle diffuser.", but this is the Retra Pro model and now they have the "Pro X" model. Confusing...

https://www.backscatter.com/reviews/post/Retra-Flash-Underwater-Strobe-Test-and-Review

That is the original Retra pre using circular flash tubes, I expect the beam angle is greater with the circular tubes.

8 hours ago, ChrisRoss said:

That is the original Retra pre using circular flash tubes, I expect the beam angle is greater with the circular tubes.

This is the original article 

https://www.retra-uwt.com/blogs/news/comparing-light-ouput

When you look at the image with the tests without diffusers you see that the new retra flash is much wider than the original

However when you look at the shot with diffuser the new flash due to the design benefits less than the diffuser and the gap is not so large

The measurements that follow are without diffuser which is not how you would use a strobe with linear tubes including the z330

There is a useful table of physical dimensions and weights

There is no doubt that retra products are well built by someone who knows their stuff very well

16 hours ago, TimG said:

There have been a number of Z330s for sale in the Classifieds. Grab one?

I have looked in the classified section here and also other places. Since the Z-330 are already a rarity, the requested prices are high and with postage costs and import tax (when from outside EU) the used ones would come at a cost of new exemplars. This is too much for my well-beeing...

There was, however, a lucky turn, just this morning. Mr. Karl from Subal/Austria called me and told me that he stumbled over a package with two demonstration-copies of Z-330 (I had asked before at several dealers, whether they still have some in stock and nobody had). I bought one at a good price (the other one is still available at the moment)...

I almost regret a little that I will stay with the Z-330 (but in the meantime I learned to deal with "B..." buttons), but the acquisition of new and better strobes is not abandoned, just postponed (at the moment I would go for the Retras or Seacam)...

I thank you all for your valued hints and comments...

Wolfgang

48 minutes ago, Architeuthis said:

I have looked in the classified section here and also other places. Since the Z-330 are already a rarity, the requested prices are high and with postage costs and import tax (when from outside EU) the used ones would come at a cost of new exemplars. This is too much for my well-beeing...

There was, however, a lucky turn, just this morning. Mr. Karl from Subal/Austria called me and told me that he stumbled over a package with two demonstration-copies of Z-330 (I had asked before at several dealers, whether they still have some in stock and nobody had). I bought one at a good price (the other one is still available at the moment)...

I almost regret a little that I will stay with the Z-330 (but in the meantime I learned to deal with "B..." buttons), but the acquisition of new and better strobes is not abandoned, just postponed (at the moment I would go for the Retras or Seacam)...

I thank you all for your valued hints and comments...

 

Wolfgang

 

Glad you were able to find one, seems Subal are some nice folks
I was about to suggest to look at Scubaboard, if you don't mind little US import. Also UWCameraStore/Onderwaterhuis in NL shows those as in stock
https://www.uwcamerastore.com/inon-z-330-type-2-underwater-strobe:
Fotografit is a maybe:
https://fotografit.eu/products/17-strobes---flash/2448-inon-z-330-ultra-wide (weitwinkel) (weitwinkel)-strobe-incl-strobe-dome-filter-soft-and-strobe-light-shade/

 

Quote

I almost regret a little that I will stay with the Z-330 (...)

That is some "regret"

Nice you succeeded Wolfgang,

For others with the same problem: 

Netherlands based Underwatermegastore apparently still have Z-330 type 2 's in stock. 

https://www.uwcamerastore.com/inon-z-330-type-2-underwater-strobe

Floris

On 2/16/2023 at 2:45 AM, Architeuthis said:

I almost regret a little that I will stay with the Z-330

I don’t regret switching to the Inon Z-330s at all. Although, I have never used the Retras. I was using the Ikelite DS161 with the beautiful soft round flash tube, and didn’t think I would like the higher kelvin on the Z330s, but they are much more bright and powerful. They do a decent job of lighting a wide reef scene at 14mm. When I want a warmer color I use the Inon Warm Dome Diffuser (4600k). 

You can see a great comparison of all the strobes discussed by Reef Photo here: https://reefphoto.com/blogs/trending/how-good-are-the-current-strobes-for-light-intensity-and-coverage