How is Adam doing?

As someone who has experience in distressed businesses and insolvency I have to say that you guys are not helping your own cause by bombarding this forum with such messages.

To believe that a person that has so far had impeccable attitude and has run multiple trips succesfully is just sitting on your money for the fun of it and everything is there in tact is a bit wishful thinking. There is a a significant possibility that part or all the money required is no longer there otherwise you would have already received it, the reason why this situation has occured is in fact not important.

With that in mind your interest is that wetpixel continues to get cash in because otherwise there will be less resource to pay back the creditors.

Some people here are suggesting to go and tell people to stop advertising for example this is only going to accelerate a potential wind down of the business.

As I have already said get together and instruct a specialist in UK to see what next steps are possible bearing in mind you may only get partially the money you paid.

Even if, and I do not wish for one minute this was the case, Adam was physically or mentally incapacitated this does not make a difference at all to the process you need to follow which is one of bad debt recovery. Getting angry and upset is human but does not lead to any conclusion.

5 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said:

As someone who has experience in distressed businesses and insolvency I have to say that you guys are not helping your own cause by bombarding this forum with such messages.

To believe that a person that has so far had impeccable attitude and has run multiple trips succesfully is just sitting on your money for the fun of it and everything is there in tact is a bit wishful thinking. There is a a significant possibility that part or all the money required is no longer there otherwise you would have already received it, the reason why this situation has occured is in fact not important.

With that in mind your interest is that wetpixel continues to get cash in because otherwise there will be less resource to pay back the creditors.

Some people here are suggesting to go and tell people to stop advertising for example this is only going to accelerate a potential wind down of the business.

As I have already said get together and instruct a specialist in UK to see what next steps are possible bearing in mind you may only get partially the money you paid.

Even if, and I do not wish for one minute this was the case, Adam was physically or mentally incapacitated this does not make a difference at all to the process you need to follow which is one of bad debt recovery. Getting angry and upset is human but does not lead to any conclusion.

I think you are underestimating 

A) the potential leverage exerted by transparency. Prior to the last few days, Several individuals thought that they were the only ones effected and are now in a position to mobilize as a group. Due to the revelations (if accurate… and I have to say I believe the individuals concerned, I have never had any reason to doubt the information from Adam’s friends) the continuation of the board is jeapordy, ‘not talking about it openly’ does not make that go away.

B) if these accusations are valid, Adam my now concede that he can no longer keep it under wraps and will have to address it.

C) if these issues were discussed openly on this forum previously, several individuals conceivably would not have booked trips after the fact, thereby adding to the growing list of claimants…

whilst I appreciate an angle of ‘if this is all kept quiet it may not affect the future of the board’ ….I argue that a wiser approach would be ‘the truth will set you free’ so that it can be dealt with and the board can move on.

57 minutes ago, Ministryofgiraffes said:

I think you are underestimating 

A) the potential leverage exerted by transparency. Prior to the last few days, Several individuals thought that they were the only ones effected and are now in a position to mobilize as a group. Due to the revelations (if accurate… and I have to say I believe the individuals concerned, I have never had any reason to doubt the information from Adam’s friends) the continuation of the board is jeapordy, ‘not talking about it openly’ does not make that go away.

B) if these accusations are valid, Adam my now concede that he can no longer keep it under wraps and will have to address it.

C) if these issues were discussed openly on this forum previously, several individuals conceivably would not have booked trips after the fact, thereby adding to the growing list of claimants…

whilst I appreciate an angle of ‘if this is all kept quiet it may not affect the future of the board’ ….I argue that a wiser approach would be ‘the truth will set you free’ so that it can be dealt with and the board can move on.

 

 

I think you are not getting the point.

The reason why people are not getting their money back for trips that are lapsed or cancelled is unclear.

However the fact that they are not getting the money back is pretty clear.

Naming and shaming on the forum is going to make zero different to the actual return of the money because most likely the moneis are not there (otherwise they would have already been returned) and therefore you need to trigger a process.

As a result it may or not become apparent that a director of the company did not follow the appropriate conduct for example the business continued trading when in fact he should have been wound down.

At that point this becomes then a proceeding against the person.

In any case reducing the income of funds into wetpixel may result in a quicker more dramatic resolution of the issue.

Imagine the following situation. The hosting of this forum is say £30 and there is absolutely zero in the bank next renewal comes the forum is dead. Did this help anyone?

I am not saying that all of you don't have the right to complain but this forum cannot do anything to address your complaints.

You got the communication with Adam directly you know his email and phone number and he is not replying, on which basis you think he would come here and acknoweldge anything or say this was just a big misunderstanding?

I am trying to help you guys by saying follow the institutional path for debt collection in UK it is clear and transparent and don't get involved on why this issue arose. You paid for a service you did not get it as it was not performed you want your money back full stop. 

Instead now we have a fresh example of a user spamming the entire forum with his request to have his money back. This is not the inbox of Adam Hanlon and none of us can do anything. What's the point of doing anything like that?

2 hours ago, ScubaJess said:

Adam, you need to communicate and pay back the money you owe me and others.  You have been reassuring me for months that you would get me my 5,000 dollars back from the Lembeh trip you rescheduled once your health allowed you to do so.  I you are able to post new trips and collect money from people you can send me my money back.  There is no excuse for this behavior.

I warn others that there is a pattern of collecting money then no communication and sometimes not even a trip like this Red Sea one.  To not talk about it and reveal what Adam is doing is hurting the industry and protecting someone that is fraudulent and causing great damage to the industry.  

Hey ScubaJess

I do genuinely sympathise with what you say and have no wish to stop members expressing their feelings. That said, I’ve taken the liberty of deleting the identical post you made on a thread relating to the D850. 

There are several threads relating to the travel financing issue and could I ask you, please, to use those or, as you have also done, send a message directly to Adam. 

Chris, my colleague moderator, and I have no intention of making it difficult for the people impacted. At the same time I hope you can understand that we want to keep the forum in the best shape we can. It’s too valuable and useful to the members to let it unravel. I’m not sure posting the same comment on multiple threads really moves the problem to a solution. Understandable though the frustration might be. 

 Thanks. 

 Tim

11 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said:

I think you are not getting the point.

The reason why people are not getting their money back for trips that are lapsed or cancelled is unclear.

However the fact that they are not getting the money back is pretty clear.

Naming and shaming on the forum is going to make zero different to the actual return of the money because most likely the moneis are not there (otherwise they would have already been returned) and therefore you need to trigger a process.

As a result it may or not become apparent that a director of the company did not follow the appropriate conduct for example the business continued trading when in fact he should have been wound down.

At that point this becomes then a proceeding against the person.

In any case reducing the income of funds into wetpixel may result in a quicker more dramatic resolution of the issue.

Imagine the following situation. The hosting of this forum is say £30 and there is absolutely zero in the bank next renewal comes the forum is dead. Did this help anyone?

I am not saying that all of you don't have the right to complain but this forum cannot do anything to address your complaints.

You got the communication with Adam directly you know his email and phone number and he is not replying, on which basis you think he would come here and acknoweldge anything or say this was just a big misunderstanding?

I am trying to help you guys by saying follow the institutional path for debt collection in UK it is clear and transparent and don't get involved on why this issue arose. You paid for a service you did not get it as it was not performed you want your money back full stop. 

Instead now we have a fresh example of a user spamming the entire forum with his request to have his money back. This is not the inbox of Adam Hanlon and none of us can do anything. What's the point of doing anything like that?

 

yes, but those would be valid points if the sole aim of this ongoing discourse was  obtain restitution....which i don't think it is. i think it's a duty to inform and warn as well as coordinating a strategy around engagement, raising discussion to avoid repetition of events in the future etc.

i think your point is completely valid if this was exclusively a 'give people their money back' strategy... but i honestly don't think it is...although people who are owed money, or may not be aware that their future trips may be fantasy, may not share my opinion on that.

1 minute ago, Ministryofgiraffes said:

yes, but those would be valid points if the sole aim of this ongoing discourse was  obtain restitution....which i don't think it is.

It should be. What else do you think you want to accomplish? Get someone here and walk on burning ashes for you?

I am sure there are reasons for what happened they could be many together or just one none of this will make a difference if the participants don't get their money back

7 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said:

It should be. What else do you think you want to accomplish? Get someone here and walk on burning ashes for you?

I am sure there are reasons for what happened they could be many together or just one none of this will make a difference if the participants don't get their money back

transparency, notification to relevant parties ( mods, other potentially effected individuals etc) collation of information, data for future retroactive review, discussion, support for the aggrieved, opinion on future process when booking vacations, plans and opinion on how to ensure the forum sustains etc.

and hopefully 'intervention and support' for adam if the issues are valid.

your points ref the sponsorship etc are valid and if this discourse wasn't taking place, there would be a heightened threat of that as the forum allows influence so that this doesn't happen.

all the salient 'forum goals' one would argue...

Just now, Ministryofgiraffes said:

transparency, notification to relevant parties ( mods, other potentially effected individuals etc) collation of information, data for future retroactive review, discussion, support for the aggrieved, opinion on future process when booking vacations, plans and opinion on how to ensure the forum sustains etc.

all the salient 'forum goals' one would argue...

Notification of what exactly? If you are owed money you already know.

Perhaps what you do not know is what you can do to get your money back.

In UK there is a process to follow, this has a number of set steps, there are no other options.

The situation here is quite clear

1. Wetpixel is not a tour operator associated to any protection scheme in UK therefore if the operator is insolvent or not responding you need to follow other routes

2. If you paid by credit card you may have some protection there

3. Otherwise you need to follow the standard process

https://www.gov.uk/complain-company

If a company gets a high number of complaints this gets the interest of the authorities who may want to look into this

We are not in US where people get together and do a class act and if you are not a UK resident you need to instruct a solicitor to file those complaints for you. 

With regards to future process for booking a vacation or similar this does not change anything whenever you go through someone who is not in a protected scheme and don't use a credit card you have a risk. But in many cases some destinations do not even take a credit card. Those are generic thems that this situation does not change.

Is up to you the individual to understand the risk you are taking and then make appropriate decisions. If for any reason someone puts their faith into an operator that becomes later on insolvent the story is always the same.

Anyway I do not think I am going to be succesful and I see Tim is already taking measures to contain the systematic hijack of the forum that is of no benefit to anyone. So am going to call it a day

55 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said:

Notification of what exactly? If you are owed money you already know.

Perhaps what you do not know is what you can do to get your money back.

In UK there is a process to follow, this has a number of set steps, there are no other options.

The situation here is quite clear

1. Wetpixel is not a tour operator associated to any protection scheme in UK therefore if the operator is insolvent or not responding you need to follow other routes

2. If you paid by credit card you may have some protection there

3. Otherwise you need to follow the standard process

https://www.gov.uk/complain-company

If a company gets a high number of complaints this gets the interest of the authorities who may want to look into this

We are not in US where people get together and do a class act and if you are not a UK resident you need to instruct a solicitor to file those complaints for you. 

With regards to future process for booking a vacation or similar this does not change anything whenever you go through someone who is not in a protected scheme and don't use a credit card you have a risk. But in many cases some destinations do not even take a credit card. Those are generic thems that this situation does not change.

Is up to you the individual to understand the risk you are taking and then make appropriate decisions. If for any reason someone puts their faith into an operator that becomes later on insolvent the story is always the same.

Anyway I do not think I am going to be succesful and I see Tim is already taking measures to contain the systematic hijack of the forum that is of no benefit to anyone. So am going to call it a day

notifying other individuals/board members/the wider community  that there is an issue here....several individuals had no idea the Red Sea trips had been cancelled by the boat.

Also notifying as it has done with : the mods ( who have indicated they are now attempting to engage) /other affected parties who weren't aware of the situation before they read this etc.

this stream is literally called 'how is adam doing' and i agree it should be contained to this stream and possibly the 'fraud' stream, but any insinuation that this is some form of hijack or ulterior motive outside of regular forum discussion of a relevant point and a running brief of the situation is a little bizarre to me.

All the above is bad news, as I had high regard for Adam.  But the amount lost does seem to justify for those affected to contact the police, in this case Scotland Yard ?  

Me too. I actually didn’t believe it was anything other than a misunderstanding until Alex briefed us all. I’m always reticent to start throwing around words like ‘theft’ etc unless there is cast iron evidence. I still believe it’s likely that this all just got away from him and he found himself in a situation where he thought he could sort it out with a few ‘white lies’ given time..but it appears it’s all come crashing down and the point where it appeared he was advertising and taking money from new individuals for future workshops which likely would never take place, became the point where we have a duty to ensure people are informed.

at this point I have nothing more to add, so I will leave it a that and I Indeed hope that this has all been a misunderstanding and can be sorted out, although the statements from an increasing number of sources would suggest otherwise.

4 minutes ago, Kraken de Mabini said:

IAll the above is bad news, as I had high regard for Adam.  But the amount lost does seem to justify for those affected to contact the police, in this case Scotland Yard ?  

What are you going on about? Debt is a civil matter at best for a county court not for the police or criminal justice.

This is not just in UK is true elsewhere.

I am amazed how little people know about real life situations

9 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said:

What are you going on about? Debt is a civil matter at best for a county court not for the police or criminal justice.

This is not just in UK is true elsewhere.

I am amazed how little people know about real life situations

I concur with this point ref the debt. Although if it transpires that he has been taking funds from individuals for trips he has no intention of fulfilling and continues to do so, ( I.e none of the funds reaching the Red Sea operators and them cancelling the trip confirming they never received any of the funds from Adam ) that is potentially a different issue one would think?

but I’m no legal expert.

I’d add just one point to Kraken de Mabini’s post.

There is no point in those outside the U.K. contacting a British diplomatic mission, ie Embassy or Consulate etc. They would not get involved. And I speak with 35 years of experience as a British diplomat. 

12 minutes ago, TimG said:

I’d add just one point to Kraken de Mabini’s post.

There is no point in those outside the U.K. contacting a British diplomatic mission, ie Embassy or Consulate etc. They would not get involved. And I speak with 35 years of experience as a British diplomat. 

This is not just UK. In all parts of the world there is a difference between crimes to society like drugs, murder, abuse, violence and civil matters which are disputes between individuals and/or organisations. While it is true that some civil matters may result also in criminal charges there is absolutely nothing to suggest this is the case here.

As much as I feel sorry for those that are unclear about what happened to their funds this is all in all not life or death to anyone so please stay calm and try to get some help from professionals as I have suggested.

Those people will let you understand what your rights are and what you need to do and also give you a view of what to expect as clearly there is a reality check needed here.

How would it differ from an individual who say… collected funds from a group to organize a stag party and then they all showed up at the airport to find that the money had disappeared and the flights/hotel had never been booked? (Potentially the Red Sea workshop issue) or funds collected to pay for services and tips to an operator or resort which then never found their way to the operation.

again, I’m no legal expert, but I believe that would be considered a crime in the UK because I recall people being jailed for it. 
 

again, I clarify that I am not accusing adam of this directly although others are.
 

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/19/best-man-who-swindled-8000-from-stag-party-jailed-for-20-months

i agree though, I believe enough has been said on this for now, so I am signing off. I hope that it all ends amicably.

16 minutes ago, Ministryofgiraffes said:

How would it differ from an individual who say… collected funds from a group to organize a stag party and then they all showed up at the airport to find that the money had disappeared and the flights/hotel had never been booked? (Potentially the Red Sea workshop issue) or funds collected to pay for services and tips to an operator or resort which then never found their way to the operation.

 

again, I’m no legal expert, but I believe that would be considered a crime in the UK because I recall people being jailed for it. 
 

again, I clarify that I am not accusing adam of this directly although others are.
 

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/19/best-man-who-swindled-8000-from-stag-party-jailed-for-20-months

i agree though, I believe enough has been said on this for now, so I am signing off. I hope that it all ends amicably.

Wetpixel is not an individual is a company and to prove that its director have done something wrong it is another step in the process

So nothing to do with that example and I hope we are closing the curtain here

There are processes to follow and if you want to have an outcome that is the only path. If at some point there is something else of interest it will come up but in reality most civil cases have nothing to do with imprisonment or anything like that,

Please not am not taking any position and do not know what happened and the reason for it am just conveying a path to follow in case you have a dispute with a company that you were not able to settle. I feel very sorry for what happened to the affected parties and hope the situation can come to the best possible outcome. 

But wetpixel allegedly has one sole director. Adam Hanlon. If he disappears or can no longer continue in his position as the sole director of wetpixel, is this forum not in jeopardy of being discontinued?

if that is not the case, then 100% agree and the question has been answered that there is no danger to the forum. 
 

thanks for the clarification. 

47 minutes ago, Ministryofgiraffes said:

But wetpixel allegedly has one sole director. Adam Hanlon. If he disappears or can no longer continue in his position as the sole director of wetpixel, is this forum not in jeopardy of being discontinued?

if that is not the case, then 100% agree and the question has been answered that there is no danger to the forum. 
 

thanks for the clarification. 

 

 

It is in jeopardy and if it has no cash in the bank it may stop paying the hosting fees for the website and the forum and website is dead

So to go and say stop advertising on wetpixel to all shops and brands is not really helping anyone including those that need to have money back

Hopefully, I can clarify a few points raised regarding the legalities here and which is the best route for the aggrieved parties to take.

I am a UK police officer, and work as a custody sergeant which means I often have to make decisions on whether a person is sent to court for criminal offences or not. 

I have no affiliation to Wetpixel other than being a forum member, I have never met or spoken to Adam other than messages on these boards, I have not booked any of the affected trips and I have not seen the updates from Alex. 

People are getting confused over whether to take civil action, or to try the criminal route. the simple answer is with the limited information provided so far in these threads it could yet be either. Although there are lots of grey areas and interpretations, let me provide a couple of examples. 

Example 1. Adam has businesses and uses the cash flow generated from the trips in his businesses. His intention was to fulfil his obligations and everyone gets to do the trips. However, due to business or heath reasons the cash gets tied up elsewhere and his businesses crash owing money - this needs to be challenged down the civil route. 

Example 2. Adam wants a new Mercedes but doesn't have the money. He sells the trips with the intention to buy a car and never return the money, making up excuses as to where the money has gone. He has a new car, you have no dive trip - this is then a criminal fraud case and the police should take the lead. 

Obviously there are numerous other possibilities but hopefully this helps distinguish. 

Should the case be criminal then I believe Adam lives in the Lancashire constabulary area, so if this is where the correspondence is sent from then they would take the lead. Contacting Scotland Yard would achieve nothing as they are London based. 

Regardless of criminal / civil then I would strongly advise going down the civil route for money recovery, as in my experience, the chances of full reimbursement following a criminal conviction are practically zero. 

Go with your credit card issuer, insurer etc to get your refunds if at all possible. 

I don't want to get further involved in this as I have no dog in this fight, and don't intend on advising further on specifics, but hopefully this might point people in the right direction

Mike