D20 Vs Rebel XT

I just picked up a D20 with the 17-85IS from my local dealer and am proud to report that I have taken a total of three trouble free pictures so far . (Ok the battery had to charge and I am at work today)

Then I heard about the new Rebel XT that is about to release. Looking at the stats both cameras seem very similar. The D20 is defiantly has some additional functionality that the XT does not have but do I really need 1/8000 shutter speed? My gut feel is no, my SLR film camera only went up to 1/6000 and that was more then adequate for my shooting.

Does anyone have any insight in what differentiates the D20 from the new Rebel XT?

-Peter

I can't add anything of real value since I am new here. I just hope you get alot of good post for the 20D since I just spent the better part of my savings on one along with an Ike housing and Ike strobes

The 20D has a faster autofocus, and better build quality, but most importantly to us, there are lots of companies that make housings for the 20D. I don't know any company that has plans to build a housing for the Rebel XT, and I am sure it will take some time for housings to appear in the market. Canon is updating their line-up too fast, and this is bad for housing companies.

You make a great point Rocha. Ike does have a houseing on the way (april) for this camera. But you are right the D20 houseing market is more mature. There is value in avoiding 1st generation design issues.

Ike Product Page for the Rebel XT

I just found a great article that contrasts the two cameras. One point Bob makes is that we currently have no real idea on how the XT image quality will compare with the D20. Most people seem to guess that they will be very compatible, but the proof will be in the seeing. Here is a link to the article and some highlights from it.

Clicky

Some highlights

Things that are different where the EOS 20D is better

The EOS 20D has a rear QCD (Quick Control Dial) which can be used to set exposure compensation, flash compensation, shutter speed or aperture in manual mode and has several other functions. The same functions are available in the Digital Rebel XT, but require the pushing of buttons. The advantage of the QCD is you can do things faster and without taking your eye from the viewfinder.

The EOS 20D can shoot at 5 frames/second, the Digital Rebel XT can shoot at 3 frames/sec

The EOS 20D can shoot a burst of 23 high resolution JPEG frames before the buffer fills, The Digital Rebel XT can shoot 14 frames

The EOS 20D has 9 autofocus zones, the Digital Rebel XT has 7

The EOS 20D provides full cross-type performance with maximum apertures as small as f5.6, yet it achieves up to 3 times the standard focusing precision when used with EF lenses featuring maximum apertures larger than or equal to f/2.8. The autofocus system of the Digital Rebel XT is inherited from the film Rebel XT body and has normal precision f5.6 sensors.

The EOS 20D autofocus is specified to operate in 1 stop lower light than the Digital Rebel autofocus (-0.5 EV vs +0/5 EV)

The EOS 20D autofocus is faster than the autofocus on the Digital Rebel XT

The EOS 20D has a top shutter speed of 1/8000s, the Digital Rebel XT has a top shutter speed of 1/4000s

The EOS 20D has a flash x-sync speed of 1/250s, the Digital Rebel x-sync speed is 1/200s

The EOS 20D has a pentaprism with a 0.9x viewfinder magnification, the Digital Rebel XT has a pentamirror with 0.8x magnification.

The EOS 20D has a highest ISO setting of 3200, the Digital Rebel XT has a high ISO setting of 1600.

The EOS 20D is good for 1000 shots (no flash) on a single battery charge, the Digital Rebel XT is good for 600.

The EOS 20D has a PC terminal for use with an external flash or strobe, the Digital Rebel XT does not.

The EOS 20D maximum flash sync voltage is 250v (for both the hotshoe and PC terminal), the Digital Rebel XT maximum sync voltage is 6v

The EOS 20D has a high performance shutter designed for increased reliability (100,000 cycles), the Digital Rebel XT has the normal Canon shutter (about 50,000 cycles).

The shutter lag time of the EOS 20D is 65ms, the shutter lag time of the Digital Rebel XT is 100ms.

The high-speed mirror drive give the EOS 20D a shortened viewfinder blackout time (115ms) compared to the Digital Rebel XT (170ms)

The EOS 20D sensor (8.2MP, 22.5 x 15mm) is very slightly larger and has slightly more pixels than the Digital Rebel XT sensor (8.0MP, 22.2 x 14.8mm).

The EOS 20D has a multi-controller on the back of the camera can be pushed in eight directions, as well as down in the center, to simplify selection of the AF point, correction of white balance, trimming of images during direct printing, scrolling of magnified images etc. The Digital Rebel XT uses push buttons for the same functions.

The EOS 20D has top, front and rear covers made of a magnesium alloy for added

strength and rigidity. The top, front and rear covers of the Rebel XT are plastic.

The EOS 20D has 18 custom functions, the Digital Rebel XT has 9 (List of XT custom functions)

The EOS 20D ships with Adobe PhotoShop Elements 2, the Digital Rebel XT ships with ArcSoft PhotoStudio 5.5. Adobe have an upgrade offer from Elements to full Photoshop CS for $299. This offer applies to copies of Elements which were supplied bundled with Canon products. Since Photoshop retails for up to $599 ($649 list), this can be a significant saving.

Things that are different where the Digital Rebel XT is better

Price - a no-brainer. The Digital Rebel XT is around $500 cheaper!

The Digital Rebel can use the low cost ($25) RC-1 and RC-5 infrared remotes. The EOS 20D can't.

The Digital Rebel XT is lighter than the EOS 20D (17.1oz vs. 24.2oz) <Note from Peter> And much smaller also!

Interesting Peter,

Thanks for the summary!

There's probably only a couple of things there that are likely to be critical to UW photography. Notably, viewfinder magnification, AF performance (which appears to be significantly better in sensitivity and accuracy in the 20D) and possibly flash sync speed. Other nice things in favour of the 20D are shutter longevity (given housing investments) and battery life (once very big cards become less expensive )

Differences in weight, frames per second (given flash recycle times), top ISO and top shutter speed are unlikely to be much of an advantage UW.

Interesting thing is the RAW buffer in both cameras is the same (6 shots). I'm not sure about the differences in control dials - I guess it depends on how housing controls are implemented as to whether there will be much of a practical difference UW.

....and possibly flash sync speed.

Both the 300D and 20D will sync at 1/320 if the camera does not know a strobe is attached. I suspect the XT will do the same.

Both the 300D and 20D will sync at 1/320 if the camera does not know a strobe is attached. I suspect the XT will do the same.

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Good to know - thanks Herb.

Does that mean they will fast-sync when connected to a DS125 in an Ike housing though?

When a DS-125 and ettl housing are connected to a 300D and set to a shutter speed < sync speed, the camera shows the H next to the flash symbol indicating High speed-sync.

Even though the flash tells the camera it is going to High-speed sync, the flash doesnt actually do anything different so you can only push it a little bit before you start to see a dark spot at the bottom of the frame. I only do 1/250 because you can see a slight darkness at the bottom of the frame at 1/320.

Remember, not all underwater photography is flash photography so the 1/8000 shutter speed may also be important. Alex did some testing showing that sunballs are improved at high shutter speeds. Sunballs and reef scenics look very good in natural light.

I think the 20D is the way to go. The price differential isn't significant considering the lenses you will use for a better body.

Remember, not all underwater photography is flash photography so the 1/8000 shutter speed may also be important.  Alex did some testing showing that sunballs are improved at high shutter speeds.

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Sorry, I just can't imagine a situation where you'd need 1/8000 underwater...

Also Alex's testing was done with a D70 which uses an electronic shutter and can therefore get much sync at much higher speeds than the 20D.

I think the 20D is the way to go. The price differential isn't significant considering the lenses you will use for a better body.

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I agree that the $ difference is small. I think the AF performance and viewfinder alone are sufficient reasons to consider the 20D over the XT.

I spent an hour at the local photo shop playing with both of them.

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I took 1 F-Stop bracketed pictures in program auto exposure mode of the same poster, utilizing the same lense and CF card with both cameras. We then downloaded the photo's into Photoshop CS on a high end Mac to compare them.

Disclaimer - I am a budding amateur photographer who still has a lot to technique to learn. I also do not have a very discriminating eye!

Here is what I found:

The Ergonomics of the controls on the D20 are much better then on the XT: Not an issue in a housing but I will use the camera topside

At ISO800 I saw noticeably more noise in the Rebel XT then in the D20: I Never have taken ISO800 shots underwater but it does prove to me that there are significant sensors differences between the two cameras

At ISO100 I saw noticeable differences in color. On the rebel XT I saw a flare of orange in the middle of the white background between two of the pictures on the poster. This did not occur on the D20. Most likely this was due to user error on my part (white balance?). I did not see any difference in sharpness or noise at 100% zoom on either print.

The D20 build quality is much higher then the XT. Given the short manufacturing life of digital cameras and the cost associated with purcahing a housings this is became a big factor in my decision.

In all I have decide to stick with the D20.

Thank you all for your input

-Peter

Looks like you have already made your decision Peter. In case others are interested, there is an interesting comparison of the 20D and XT here on photo.net.

The 20D has a faster autofocus, and better build quality, but most importantly to us, there are lots of companies that make housings for the 20D. I don't know any company that has plans to build a housing for the Rebel XT, and I am sure it will take some time for housings to appear in the market. Canon is updating their line-up too fast, and this is bad for housing companies.

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Actually, from what I've found out from Sea & Sea, they are actually manufacturing a housing for the Rebel XT, but NOT the 20D. Interesting...