Housing supports iTTL, strobe doesn't

I'm finally putting an order for a shiny new Ikelite D70 housing, with iTTL support (i know, i'll have to wait for a few weeks... just hoping it'll get here before my vacation in the end of july). I got a problem though - according to ikelite's site, one of my two strobes is too old (slow) for iTTL - my DS-50 , so old that it can't be upgraded. The other strobe - DS-125 should work fine.

Assuming i want one of the strobes to work with iTTL and to manually adjust the second one myself (mainly to fill the shadows), is it possible ? (by the way - i got two manual controllers).

Before you give me a link to TTL-anonymous - i've been working with manual controllers for more than a year, and I believe that using manual controls brings the best results. But, sometimes i dive in a group and don't have the time to mess around with all the manual settings, and sometimes i just get lazy (or short on air) and just want to point and shoot . Beacuse i'm planning to keep this housing for at least two years, i prefer to buy the housing with the iTTL support anyway (i'll probably replace the DS-50 for another DS-125 later on).

Please advise

Oren

You could try to sell your DS-50 and use that money to buy a second.

Dont know for sure, but perhaps you could still get TTL on both if you put the 50 on a TTL slave contoller?

You could try to sell your DS-50 and use that money to buy a second.

 

Dont know for sure, but perhaps you could still get TTL on both if you put the 50 on a TTL slave contoller?

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Sell the DS-50 and get another one ? too expansive right now. Besides, i don't think i'll get much for a strobe that had two floods in it's battery pack (the first was my mistake and i had no batteris inside, the second was a small leak, but one battery was leaking some acid). It still works fine though

TTL slave controller ? ummm, i actually got one... but i don't trust it. Didn't work with my Oly-C4000. I think it's gonna be hard to tell (underwater) if it's doing it's job or not when using it for a fill-in flash.

What i might just do is to work with one strobe on TTL until i'm familiar with the new cam (and leave the DS-50 dry). After a while i'll switch back to full manual mode with two strobes (until i replace my DS-50).

Opps, not "battary pack". I flooeded the battery compartment. A good rinse in fresh water and it was as good as new.

TTL slave controller ? ummm, i actually got one... but i don't trust it. Didn't work with my Oly-C4000. I think it's gonna be hard to tell (underwater) if it's doing it's job or not when using it for a fill-in flash.

 

What i might just do is to work with one strobe on TTL until i'm familiar with the new cam (and leave the DS-50 dry). After a while i'll switch back to full manual mode with two strobes (until i replace my DS-50).

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What problem did you have with it wity your C4000? Is it the digital version?

You should at least give it a try in the pool. Confirm that the 50 sees the signal from the 125 and then take one picture with the 50 turned on, and another with the 50 turned off.

What problem did you have with it wity your C4000?  Is it the digital version?

 

You should at least give it a try in the pool.  Confirm that the 50 sees the signal from the 125 and then take one picture with the 50 turned on, and another with the 50 turned off.

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The stobe wasn't in sync with the camera. It shoot, but too late (or too soon). And yes, it was the digital version. The TTL controller just doesn't work well with the C4000. I did try an older digital TTL controller (which belongs to a friend of mine) and it seemed to work better. Ikelite probably changed the circuitry.

Anyway, i like working in full manual mode (camera and strobes), but as i said, sometimes i don't have the time for it, and sometimes i'm just lazy :-)

Re"Assuming I want one of the strobes to work with iTTL and to manually adjust the second one myself ."

The D70 is a preflash camera and will trigger your DS 50 in manual mode and it will not be ready when the signal for the main flash arrives.

Re"Assuming I want one of the strobes to work with iTTL and to manually adjust the second one myself ."

 

The D70 is a preflash camera and will trigger your DS 50 in manual mode and it will not be ready when the signal for the main flash arrives.

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I'm not sure you are totaly right. If i don't use a sync cord, and just point the controller to the DS-125, it's might work. I used the DS-50 as a slave (triggered by the internal camera flash) when shooting on land, and i works just fine :-)

Ummm, makes we wonder though. Lets say i get the housing with the iTTL support, and i want to use it with my corrent strobes in manual mode (both of them). You are saying that if i leave the conversion circuitry on TTL the stobes will "miss-fire", even if i place two manual controllers in the middle ? Will i be able just switch to manual mode using the conversion circuitry in order to get over this problem ?

First, it makes no difference weather you have the Manual controler hard wired or triggered optically. I would recomened wired. But either will work.

TuriLed, here is the problem with what you want to do.

Case 1, you start the dive on TTL

So you have your housing set to TTL. Your 125 will be controled by the camera. It will flash twice, once for preflash, once for main flash.

So, you set the manual controler to preflash mode. The manual contrloler will ignore the first flash and the 50 fire with 125.

All is swell. This will work just as you wanted it to. The Camera will control the primary strobe any you can set the 50 to fill.

BUT......

Now you realize that TTL isnt working so hot so you set the housing to M mode and set power on the housing that you want for the 125.

Now the housing will ignore the preflash and send the signal to the 125 with the power you set on the housing.

The 125 will fire as expected, with the power you set on the houing, but since the housing did not transmit the signal to preflash, and your 50 is expecting a preflash, it will ignore the first (and only) signal and the 50 will never fire.

Case 2

You start the dive with the housing in manual control.

You set the manual controler to no preflash.

You set the power of the 125 on the housing and the power of the 50 on the manual controler. All works well.

But, this time, you come across a situation where you want TTL.

So you set the housing to TTL.

Now when you go to take a picture. The camera sends the signal for preflash, the 125 does an appropriate preflash, but the 50 fires as is set on the controler. The light coming from the 50 will be 10x what should come from a preflash.

The camera makes it's calculation and sends the signal for the main flash.

The 125 will do what the camera says, but the 50 will not fire at all, or if it does, it will be very weak from firing just 1/1000th a second ago.

But it is even worse than the 50 not firing, no matter what you do, the picture will come out extremely under exposed because the camera was fooled into thinking your flash was 10x stonger than what is really there.

Ummm, makes we wonder though. Lets say i get the housing with the iTTL support, and i want to use it with my corrent strobes in manual mode (both of them). You are saying that if i leave the conversion circuitry on TTL the stobes will "miss-fire", even if i place two manual controllers in the middle ? Will i be able just switch to manual mode using the conversion circuitry in order to get over this problem ?

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The TTL circuitry gets its power from the stobes.

Manual controlers do not transmit power to the circuitry.

If you are using manual controlers on both strobes, the circuitry will not power up. Everything will work exacly as it would on a non-TTL housing. (make sure you set your manual controlers to (edit)NO preflash)

Actually you dont need manual controlers to cut power to the circuitry. Only one of two sync cord leads transmits power. If you put the manual controler on that side, the TTL circuitry will not power up even if the flash is directly connected to the other side.

I see. So what you are saying is that I won't be able to switch from TTL to manual underwater if there is a manual controller somewhere in the middle (thanks for the explanation about the pre-flash settings on the controller, forgot about this one).

So far now i have two options:

- Dive with everything set to manual (Housing on manual and controllers on no-pre-flash or housing set to TTL and both manual controllers set to pre-flash).

- Dive with the housing set to TTL. DS-124 attached directly to the housing (using the TTL cable). DS-50 attached to the housing via manual controller (set to pre-flash). What if i keep the housing set to TTL, and use the manual settings on the DS-125 (4 power levels) ?

Later on when i replace the DS-50 for a new strobe, i'll be able to connect both strobes to the housing using the TTL cord , no controller in the middle, and switch from TTL to manual. I'm not sure how i feel about this one... i really like having 10 power settings when working manual. How many power settings are there on the eTTL/iTTL conversion circuitry?

Did i get it right ?

I see.  So what you are saying is that I won't be able to switch from TTL to manual underwater if there is a manual controller somewhere in the middle (thanks for the explanation about the pre-flash settings on the controller, forgot about this one).Yes, that is correct

 

 

So far now i have two options:

- Dive with everything set to manual (Housing on manual and controllers on no-pre-flash or housing set to TTL and both manual controllers set to pre-flash).Not exactly.  If you use 2 manual controlers, the TTL circuit will not power up(thus no way to tell the housing M/TTL).  You must set the manual controlers to (edit) no preflash.  OR you connect your 125 directly to the housing, via the primary side of the sync cord, set the housing to Manual, and have the 50 on a manual controler wet to no preflash

 

- Dive with the housing set to TTL. DS-124 attached directly to the housing (using the TTL cable). DS-50 attached to the housing via manual controller (set to pre-flash). Yes, that works, as long as you do not change the housing to manual.

 

-What if i keep the housing set to TTL, and use the manual settings on the DS-125 (4 power levels) ?No, you can not do that.  If you have the housing set to TTL, and the stobe set to anything other than TTL, the stobe will fire on the preflash instead of the primary flash.  You must have the housing set to manual to use the 4 settings on the stobe.

 

Later on when i replace the DS-50 for a new strobe, i'll be able to connect both strobes to the housing using the TTL cord , no controller in the middle, and switch from TTL to manual. I'm not sure how i feel about this one... i really like having 10 power settings when working manual. How many power settings are there on the eTTL/iTTL conversion circuitry?There are 8 power setting on the housing in 1/2 stop steps.  [Have not ever found this not enough settings, and it is much easier to adjust the power on the housing than it is to adjust the power on the manual controllers.

 

Did i get it right ?

Cool. Last question - when working with two strobes in TTL , is it possible to set one of them 1/2-1 stops down, so i'll still get some shadows ?

No, you cant do that. Only way to do that is to put the diffuser on one strobe, and leave the diffuser off on the other stobe.

No, you cant do that.  Only way to do that is to put the diffuser on one strobe, and leave the diffuser off on the other stobe.

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Good idea. Thanks.

I wouldn't worry about only having 4 settings on the strobe. I've shot with both the 125 and now with Sea & Sea YS-120s, which only have 2 power settings (1/2 and full). Even with only 2 settings, I've still been able to create pretty much any lighting effect I want to (you just adjust the aperture/shutter speed, strobe positioning, etc.)