Strobe for wide angle?

I have been using a YS-90 Duo Auto as my primary strobe with a the smaller YS-30 as a fill light. I would like to add another YS-90 and keep the 30 as a backup. I have mostly been doing macro but I am thinking to gear up for more wide-angle as well now that I have a 10-22mm for my Canon 20D. I have read several threads here that suggest the YS90 is not that great for wide angle work (or not as good as some other strobes such as the DS-125 or Inon Z220). I know this is a touchy subject, but any advice is appreciated.

Also, is the YS120 any more powerful than the YS90? I see from the specs that the beam coverage is slightly bigger and the guide numbers are the same. Are you just paying for a faster recycle time?

Chris

From the nature of the posts around I also thought that the Ikes might be a big improvement - so I went for a pair of the 200s. I waited 4wks for the strobes, 8wks for the cords, then one of them didn't work on the 1st dive. I sent them both back and will stick to my YS 120s. They are a great compromise between size and power (although the recycle on the WORKING 200 was impressive). for a 10-22 they whould provide lots of coverage - I use a diffuser when I use with the fisheye. Also - they'll share cords with your current strobe. The Inon's would also share cords - I've never used them but have been thinking about trying them.

Who did you order those from Kasey - that doesn't sound like very good customer service, but I'm sure there's more to the story. Plus, you live in a somewhat remote location.

In any case, you're correct Chris. The YS120 does throw more power, but it spreads it out more, so the guide number is the same. Imagine a strobe that throws 100 watt seconds into a circle the size of a trashcan lid. Then imagine a strobe that throws 200 watt seconds into a circle the size of a trampoline. Each of the circles has the same brightness in the center, but obviously the second one is better for wideangle photography.

RE the Ikelite 200's, these strobes are considered by most pros (and little ole me) to be the workhorse of the industry. It's light underwater, recycles VERY fast, doesn't use EIGHT freaking batteries, has a wonderful color temperature light, and a round flashtube. I've been using them for years and have NEVER had a problem w/ mine - I love them.

I recommend the Ike 200's to just about everyone.

Cheers

James

... I use a diffuser when I use with the fisheye...

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I may be showing my ignorance here (wouldn't be the first time!), but does a diffuser actually WIDEN the coverage of a strobe, or just soften it? I use Inon Z220 strobes, and have had trouble with some wide angle coverage (dramatically apparent in the shot below). Aside from obviously needing to get closer and/or aim my strobes more inward, would a diffuser help such shots?

Yes and yes. It widens and softens the beam.

Yes, if you are just spotlighting part of the frame, try adding the .5 stop diffusers and pulling your strobes back.

Cheers

James

Who did you order those from Kasey - that doesn't sound like very good customer service, but I'm sure there's more to the story.  Plus, you live in a somewhat remote location.

 

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Not much more really. I bought them from SCUBA - a great local shop that I've worked with for years. They put the order in right in front of me, but Ike was backed up on the 200s and much more backed up on the cords. I would've ordered from BH or somewhere else with stock if they had told me how long the wait would be, but we were told "any day now" for about 6 wks!!! After all that to have a strobe malfunction on its 1st use!

Anyway, I was very impressed with the strobe that did work, but my KISS strategy means that I will not tolerate intermittent or unreliable gear. One of the nice things about Sea & Sea is that the parts seem always available and they use pretty standardized cords. I'll happily give up an ounce of performance for a pound of reliabilty.

Thanks for the info and opinions. Are the 200s a little overpowered for macro shooting or can they be turned down adequately for close work. I am assuming that perhaps people have a separate set of lights for either macro or wide-angle work and set up accordingly before a dive. I am thinking to get something that would work well for both (or a compromise at best). I am hesitant to buy another YS90 to match my current one if it still going to be underpowered for wide work.

I found the 200s way too large for macro work. THe inons look more suited to this, and you YS90 is also relatively compact. FOr macro you want a strobe that is easy to move into small places.

Close focus wide angle does not need especially strong strobes. As long as you get close. Large animals that don't come that close require the most power - sharks for example.

Nobody that I dive with regularly has separate macro and wide angle strobes. A pair of YS90DX will be fine for most wide angle and certainly your most cost effective choice.

Alex

Close focus wide angle does not need especially strong strobes.

Alex

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Sorry but i disagree with this. Could be from my old Nikonos days but i think with a lot of the sunburst discussion we have going who knows.

I have a pair of S&S YS 120s, one of the biggest things for me has always been CFWA with a sunburst. With a Nikonos V the highest synch speed was 90th per sec. Therefore to shoot the big sunburst CFWA shots cranking the fstop up to 18-22 was necessary to control the sunburst, which i think is also true with digital to avoid the big ugly burst.

Therefore, to balance the light, ie get a nice exposure on the foreground, i had to take the diffusers off of my strobes (i always keep them on full with diffusers) and place them literally inches from the subject in order to get the right amount of light to expose the anemone or whatever i was shooting. For other subjects, such as seafans, i was continually lamenting that the strobes did not have enough power to light up something from further away, say 18 inches (45 cms) on f22

Now then, in digital i believe (and this is due to my own experience, not a general theory, so others will have other opinions) that to control an unobscured sun the f stop needs to be high, just like the Nikonos. Therefore to get a nice sunburst in your CFWA you need extremely powerful strobes, (like Alex's Subtronics (colour me jealous))

But if you are not interested in that sort of shot then no problems.

I shoot all of my macro and wide with my 120s, i don't think they are too big for macro. However, i think they are much better suited for wide than the 90s. Personally i think the Ikelite 200s are a great strobe and would much rather go for those over the 125s. But that is due to my predilection for sunbursts and the need for the big power to even up the light. They are fine for macro as well (in the vast majority of situations) They are a touch bigger than the 125s but not that much

If you go with the 120s get yourself some good Nimh batteries, the recycle time is rather quick that way. But if i was to buy strobes from scratch from what i know now i would have gone with the Ike 200s as opposed to the YS 120s, the modelling light being one of the biggest factors as well as recycle time.

Mike

I'm with Mike on this one. I love my Inon Z220's because of the compact size, but I often wished they are one stop brighter. More light would come in handly in lots of situations. Most importantly in sunball shots. Even though the DRebel will sync at 1/320, I think closing down the aperture another stop would help. The strobe power is the limiting factor here.

Even macro shots can sometimes benefit from higher power strobes. On some subjects I'm limited to F/16 , ISO100 by the strobes.

I've owned the YS90-dx and traded them in for the Z220's which I think are much better. It's brighter, has a wider and more uniform beam and is also smaller.

Just to add my views.

I would recommend the Inon Z220's as a first choice. In my opinion the diffusers do soften the beam and widen it also.

If you are using a fisheye with only one flash then your placement has to be carefully considered for each and every shot. Orientation often changes between portrait and landscape and the way a fan coral hangs from a wall can differ. We all screw up our lighting angles from time to time but when I think back I have no doubt left them in the same position I used for a set up earlier in the dive.

Martin Edge

www.edgeunderwaterphotography.com

D100 but looking closely at the D2x

Thanks for all the great advice and discussions. I am indeed leaning toward a pair of the Z220F strobes. I will be in Bali and Wakatobi in September so I expect it to be mostly macro anyway. Then Inons will be ideal for this. I will keep my YS90auto as a backup.

Incidentally, my YS90auto failed on its first dive trip before it hit the water, leaving me without a prime strobe so I was sympathetic with Kasey's Iklite story. It was brand new and worked before I left for Australia. Something went bad on the circut board according to S&S after I sent it back for repairs. Lesson: regardless of your brand, always have backup (which I did).

Chris